The new COVID thread

[Bene Futuis]

It should be obvious that it is not universally held "fact" that aspiration is not the best practice, since there are entire western democratic countries that require it to be done. And again there doesnt seem to be any downside to it other than maybe a slightly sorer shoulder (which I did not experience myself). It is also obvious that many of the so called experts often are spreading misinformation themselves to the detriment of us all. The problem is that certain people and organizations, in the larger society as well as in these forums, act like they have a monopoly on valid information and that anyone who offers a different opinion is spreading misleading info and should be censored or "cancelled".

It's tough to discuss with you because you preemptively dismiss the very experts we should be listening to, in my opinion, instead of looking to nurses and right wing extremist websites for information. But I've heard the CDC and WHO conspiracies and it's pretty exhausting even starting to discuss that stuff. So, what are we left with? Well, the CDC says that aspiration is not best practice. So does the American Association of Pediatrics. Same with the World Health Organization. Ditto the Infectious Disease Society of America. But if they're all wrong then, yeah, you are facing a little more pain at worst.

[nullnor]

Sadly what can never be forgiven is the garbage like your posts in this thread that spread misinformation. You aren’t a doctor. Listen to yours.

there are two types of ppl in the world. ones that want to have the answers handed to them and ppl that want to find it themselves.

and then there are Dinobots. and Dinobots are always right.

[Bene Futuis]

The real deal, rhd, is that you offer a lot of valuable information to this board about COVID. You are clearly very engaged and generally well-informed. You did a very strong job tracking infection rates, it seems. You offered ideas and modified them when faced with superior information. That's laudable and your voice is a valuable one, and that's important when we're talking about an unbelievably awful global pandemic that's well on its way to killing a million people in our country alone. In that way, you are similar to Doctor of Nursing Education John Campbell. You both are pretty prolific, you both offer solid information, you both generally deal with broadly accepted facts and legitimate underlying studies........but not always. Sometimes he (and you) employ unreliable sources or you let your anti-China bias shine though and I'll tell you - that does you and your credibility a disservice. Thing is, though, you don't even need to add that stuff in. Nothing is added by snarkily referring to Fauci as "Fraudci". To me, that kills your credibility instantly. Nothing is added by completely dismissing the work of the WHO or the CDC or even by casting doubts that should not be cast. Nothing is added by posting those "well, lots of people are saying" kinds of YouTube videos put out by right wing extremists with obvious agendas. In the new age of alternative facts, things can often seem out of whack and it's easy to cancel the CDC or cancel the WHO or cancel Dr. Fauci, despite the work they do and, in the case of Fauci, the decades' long career across many administrations from both sides of the aisle. All you need, apparently, is the ability to tie Fauci to gain of function research in China (boo China! yay.....Russia?).

But really, I'll yield. It's hard for me not to call out misinformation (Must. Be. Right. On. Internet.) but your contributions far outpace mine here (and elsewhere, if we're being honest). You may not care what I have to say, but I'll offer this: Maintain your credibility. Lose the spurious sources or, at a minimum, make very clear that you are offering a questionable source. I've just been in a relatively constant state of fear about this damn pandemic, having multiple at-risk people in my close family. And I've seen a mountain of misinformation on this board, from stating hydroxychloroquine is safe and effective (it's not safe, but it's not seriously unsafe.....it's not effective for COVID) to insinuations that mask mandates actually harm, people covering for Trump when he suggested chugging disinfectant, and on and on. And I'll admit to reading your anti-China diatribes in a manner differently than I assume you hoped they'd be read. So, I'll yield in particular with the snarky remarks.



But not to Johnny, who can eat a bag of dicks until he chokes to death. Just kidding, bro! I'm sure you're great at dick eating.

[nullnor]

i am glad i was able to narrow the argument down to whether or not to aspirate. it's a small victory. like saying "freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.”

“It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.”

[nullnor]

we always joked Dick Clark was the devil. mostly because he was so smooth and never aged. and then he died and we stopped joking. and now there is a new Prince of Darkness, Fauci. he loves the cameras. vanity, my favorite sin. he's got a lot of balls, having been the face of the pandemic this long. everyone before him is gone. he's the last man standing. he's the best representation of the pandemic. because he is the pandemic. he's the face of the cure, and the disease at the same time. it was his destiny. if it did accidentally escape from a lab. the path to hell was paved with good intentions. with a sprinkle of vanity. and now we need him to fix this mistake.

[Ken]

there are two types of ppl in the world. ones that want to have the answers handed to them and ppl that want to find it themselves.

and then there are Dinobots. and Dinobots are always right.

Got it. So what did your doctor say?

Or are you suggesting you don't even listen to your own doctor?

[Ken]

i am glad i was able to narrow the argument down to whether or not to aspirate. it's a small victory.

Did you ever get vaccinated? Or are you still delusional on that topic too?

[Bene Futuis]

This is a new one. We've battled our way through misinformation about ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, ingesting bleach, sticking a UV light up your butt, intentionally getting COVID, and a slew of other home remedies and fake cures. But now Republican Senator Ron Johnson (R-WI) thinks we can just Listerine our way out of this COVID nightmare. He said recently, "By the way, standard gargle, mouthwash, has been proven to kill the coronavirus. If you get it, you may reduce viral replication. Why not try all these things?" Listerine was forced to debunk this claim on their website. At least this one won't (likely) hurt anyone, so there's that.

[umjewman]

This is a new one. We've battled our way through misinformation about ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, ingesting bleach, sticking a UV light up your butt, intentionally getting COVID, and a slew of other home remedies and fake cures. But now Republican Senator Ron Johnson (R-WI) thinks we can just Listerine our way out of this COVID nightmare. He said recently, "By the way, standard gargle, mouthwash, has been proven to kill the coronavirus. If you get it, you may reduce viral replication. Why not try all these things?" Listerine was forced to debunk this claim on their website. At least this one won't (likely) hurt anyone, so there's that.

Don’t be so dismissive. I use Listerine daily and have not tested positive for the coronavirus yet. Therefore, science!

[johnnya24]

Dr Jake Paul's latest data driven analysis ... I'd link a traditional media source, but they are so concerned with panic and dumbed down trash, that I can't find any.

Let's hope the optimistic initial data coming from SA, and now Norway, continues to tell the same story over the next few weeks. Because omicron could be the beginning of the end of the pandemic.

[johnnya24]

Yesterdays's influencer viral video from Dr David Dobrik had an interesting discussion about a new research paper on Omicron, which points to a new genetic modification that it seems to have adopted from the common cold virus. This could explain Omicron's cold-like symptons and also why it appears so much less virulent than Delta.

If Omicron kills off Delta (as has happened in SA), and isn't hospitalizing vaccinated (or previously infected) people ... then the pandemic could be done (in the heavily vaccinated developed world in any case).

Still Ifs and buts ... but some positive potential emerging ... light's and tunnel's and what not.

[Sour Masher]

Yesterdays's influencer viral video from Dr David Dobrik had an interesting discussion about a new research paper on Omicron, which points to a new genetic modification that it seems to have adopted from the common cold virus. This could explain Omicron's cold-like symptons and also why it appears so much less virulent than Delta.

If Omicron kills off Delta (as has happened in SA), and isn't hospitalizing vaccinated (or previously infected) people ... then the pandemic could be done (in the heavily vaccinated developed world in any case).

Still Ifs and buts ... but some positive potential emerging ... light's and tunnel's and what not.

From your lips to God's ears, as they say. The CDC (I know some folks think their statements are wroth jack squat, but I am still compelled to share them) confirms this same point, saying of the very SSS so far in the US of about 40 cases, there has only been one hospitalization and overall, so far, here it is playing out like in SA--mild cases with cold-like symptoms. Which is great. But I can't get too happy, since Omicron spreading so rapidly seems to make it inevitable that future variants emerge, and they may be worse. But who knows. I sure don't. But I am sure all of us are with you in hoping this is all good news and it will lead to the end of the pandemic.

Also, if this info really was coming from Jake Paul, way, way more people would be aware of it and believe it, so even if/when the COVID pandemic is over, we still will have the outsized influence of influencers pandemic to deal with.

[Bene Futuis]

From your lips to God's ears, as they say. The CDC (I know some folks think their statements are wroth jack squat, but I am still compelled to share them) confirms this same point, saying of the very SSS so far in the US of about 40 cases, there has only been one hospitalization and overall, so far, here it is playing out like in SA--mild cases with cold-like symptoms. Which is great. But I can't get too happy, since Omicron spreading so rapidly seems to make it inevitable that future variants emerge, and they may be worse. But who knows. I sure don't. But I am sure all of us are with you in hoping this is all good news and it will lead to the end of the pandemic.

Also, if this info really was coming from Jake Paul, way, way more people would be aware of it and believe it, so even if/when the COVID pandemic is over, we still will have the outsized influence of influencers pandemic to deal with.

Look, buddy. Jake Paul doesn't care about partisan bullshit and just follows the data, ok? That's just good science, Sour Masher.

[TranaGreg]

Dr Jake Paul's latest data driven analysis ... I'd link a traditional media source, but they are so concerned with panic and dumbed down trash, that I can't find any.

Let's hope the optimistic initial data coming from SA, and now Norway, continues to tell the same story over the next few weeks. Because omicron could be the beginning of the end of the pandemic.

Thanks for sharing johnny; this is still initial data and much of this is anecdotal, but this is indeed hopeful. Ideally, in a few weeks, we should drop all restrictions, let everyone get omicron, and then enjoy the spring. (I say that flippantly, obviously there are a lot of considerations wrt immunocompromised people, elderly, etc ... but it's still hopeful)

[TranaGreg]

... But I can't get too happy, since Omicron spreading so rapidly seems to make it inevitable that future variants emerge, and they may be worse. ...

last year I did some technical reading on what caused the end of the Spanish Flu a century ago, and it was a similar story - the worst form of the virus is one that is transmissible but has a long incubation period - if it takes a couple of weeks for symptoms to appear then an individual will have passed it on to a lot of people; the best case is a variant that is very transmissible & has a short incubation period. The key is that the new variant takes hold faster than the previous giving no opportunity for the old variant to infect an individual (since the new variant will have already infected them). This is how delta basically made the previous variants almost invisible in a very short time period ... and the hope is that omicron does the same to delta.

If omicron provides the kind of immunity that the previous variants have - and my sense is that there's no data on this yet but there's no reason to think it won't - well, this would be a very good scenario.

It's a form of natural selection - fast-to-infect, milder variants should always overpower slow-to-infect, more deadly versions (the virus simply can't replicate as fast with dead people as it can with living ones)