Originally posted by Ken
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Originally posted by Ken View PostSeems like you are missing the point.
If there's actual evidence that's fine, and that's a different discussion. I don't disagree with your assertions above. The danger is in suggesting that GOP "may" do something, or that it "stands to reason" that they will.
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Originally posted by Bene Futuis View PostOh, I guess I don't get it either. Do you mean it's dangerous to suggest they "may" do something, since they obviously already are?
The danger I was communicating (and revo got it on his last reply) is that hyperbole or conjecture can look like fear mongering.
Revo followed up with cited examples which made his point salient. When it's left at "they may do something", or "it stands to reason that they would", it can often have the opposite effect as intended. No longer the case here.
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Originally posted by Bene Futuis View PostExcept revo is not exaggerating the GOP stance, he is downplaying it. It's far more pervasive and nefarious than just a simple "glossing over" and it's already been happening for years.
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I just wanna jump in to say I wasn't trying to give Repubs a pass--I know many would love to white wash slavery, and continue to try to do that. My perception, though, is that a lot of Repubs are not actively and consciously trying to deny slavery, but are more reacting to the coming to light a lot of what has been cast aside and denied by white America with a fear and anxiety, a kind of , wtf, "I am just minding my own indifferent business here, why are people coming at me with this stuff all of a sudden?" I would be shocked if the majority of GOPers who identity as being against CRT could define it, which is the saddest part to me. They let their anger over it be guided by those with an economic agenda to make them angry--the talking heads they watch on TV that carefully choose those aspects of the discussion that they believe will be most infuriating for their audience to hear. But few of them have actually read any of it firsthand, or tried to understand where it might be coming from. I don't know if it would matter in many cases if they did, but I just don't get being for or against something passionately when you have no real clue what it is about. I feel the same way about religious folks that don't even bother to read their own scriptures closely. I would much rather engage with someone who knows what the hell they are talking about, but most people do not, yet still FEEL very strongly about it.
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Originally posted by chancellor View PostI'll believe Democrats really believe this shit once Sheldon Whitehouse is run out of office.If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Originally posted by chancellor View PostI'll believe Democrats really believe this shit once Sheldon Whitehouse is run out of office.Last edited by Sour Masher; 06-22-2021, 09:22 PM.
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For the record, there are aspects of CRT, specifically as they related to my own teaching, and especially assessment, that I find problematic, but I am talking about more esoteric issues related specifically to what some proponents propose as solutions to the issues I agree exist--my issues with it are about the way some think we should respond to the underlying truths, not the truths themselves. I have not been convinced of the merits of labor-based grading practices, for instance, as a solution to leveling the playing field for students. I think it is potentially naïve and harmful to students. But that, like most of my other concerns, are issues of debate on solutions to problems I, and I think anyone who really studies the issues, agrees are very much real.
I really believe anyone with an open mind who looked with brutal honesty at our systems and how they developed and how the currently operate would come to accept as hard truths much of what is being attacked on the right in relation to the foundational truths that inform CRT. When I see many on the right reject out of hand CRT, in many cases, I am just seeing people cover their eyes so as not to see uncomfortable truths that they would see if they were willing to look.
But I am somewhat sympathetic to well-meaning conservatives who have questions and concerns about the implementation of CRT, because I know how "with us or against us" some of the push back can be to anyone that questions any aspect of CRT. I am very cautious about what I say and how and to who, because I know the pain and anger that informs those putting forth CRT, and the long and frustrating fight many of them have had in being heard at all. The debate happening at UNC now about whether a leading figure in CRT should be converted to tenure track is not isolated (nor is it unusual or surprising that at the heart of the conflict is the criticism of a rich, white, Trump supporter/donor vs an academic of color). A lot of folks have been in the spot of not having their scholarship count, because of questions about the validity of CRT research. So, it is really thin ice to tread on, even if you are an ally, when you question any part of it. And that egg-shell walking, for fear of being called part of the racist system of oppression, isn't ideal for robust discussion and honest dialogue. But neither is the fact that some of the attacks on CRT are so ill-informed that I'm paralyzed by my concern of being lumped in with such people (but again, it bums me out that any small criticism I make, to some people, would lead to some of them doing just that, but that is a separate issue to the merits of CRT).
Really, it amazes me how little, beyond some soundbites, many know about CRT, yet I see such staunch opposition to it on the right, as if it has become a symbol of all that is wrong with the left--the latest and most egregious example of the left's undercutting of the oh so precious myth of American exceptionalism, an attack on God's chosen people. The ironic thing is that in many ways, these staunch and vocal critics on the right have elevated CRT in the public discourse and increased the exposure of many CRT ideas that were not getting much attention before, and not all of it is negative attention, as they might want. I'd venture to guess that those few who knew nothing about CRT before that have looked into it sincerely have learned a lot of dark truths about our society they may not have known before.Last edited by Sour Masher; 06-22-2021, 09:26 PM.
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Yes, because if one random Senator from Rhode Island belonged to an all white boating club or whatever, that must mean that critical race theory is not valid. Compelling stuff. I personally evaluate my beliefs on the membership status of county commissioners from Laramie, Wyoming, but I’ll have to rethink that one.More American children die by gunfire in a year than on-duty police officers and active duty military.
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Yes, and you and the GOP will get on board with the seriousness of the problems of sexual harassment and the rich white men abusing their positions of power if the Democrats would just deal with Al Franken, but of course they won't...so clearly they're hypocrites who can be ignored and sexual harassment isn't a real issue... Or maybe whataboutism isn't the right way to evaluate the validity of things?"Jesus said to them, 'Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going into the kingdom of God ahead of you.'"
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Originally posted by Kevin Seitzer View PostYes, and you and the GOP will get on board with the seriousness of the problems of sexual harassment and the rich white men abusing their positions of power if the Democrats would just deal with Al Franken, but of course they won't...so clearly they're hypocrites who can be ignored and sexual harassment isn't a real issue... Or maybe whataboutism isn't the right way to evaluate the validity of things?
I disagree with that view, even when restricted to politicians, or at least I disagree with the premise that because one Democrat has proven to be tone deaf on this issue that it must follow that the whole of the party does not care about that issue, because they have not drum that one guy out of office. Just because colleagues in other states doe not actively campaign against someone who has shown to be racially tone-deaf does not mean they all don't care about CRT or systemic racism in America. Maybe many of them do not, but many do, and I am sure many have talked to Whitehouse privately about his response to the issue. If they all agreed with him as so many do with Trump and his ilk, I'd concede the point. But that is not the case.Last edited by Sour Masher; 06-22-2021, 10:28 PM.
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