Former Guy Donald Trump

[chancellor]

Hopefully all of us, at least those of us on this board, are in total agreement that anything approaching a boots on the ground military approach to anything Ukraine-related is a very bad idea for this country. I'm not up to date on, well, much of anything, but I imagine that NATO has no obligation to Ukraine, either.

They do not as of now. In 2008, there was a proposal to move Ukraine from NATO partner to full membership, led by the Bush administration. This was updated this year with support of the Biden administration. If that actually happens, then we - and all of NATO - will be obligated to assist in their defense if Russia does invade. There's an interim step before that happens - a Membership Action Plan (MAP), but that's been verbally supported by both Democrats (Chris Murphy) and Republicans (Mitt Romney and if revo's correct, Roger Wicker as well).

[Ken]

They do not as of now. In 2008, there was a proposal to move Ukraine from NATO partner to full membership, led by the Bush administration. This was updated this year with support of the Biden administration. If that actually happens, then we - and all of NATO - will be obligated to assist in their defense if Russia does invade. There's an interim step before that happens - a Membership Action Plan (MAP), but that's been verbally supported by both Democrats (Chris Murphy) and Republicans (Mitt Romney and if revo's correct, Roger Wicker as well).

Apologies for my ignorance here, I'm having trouble reconciling this with your previous comment. Likely due to not fully grasping the specifics you are referring to.

Previously you noted that "a number of our traditional allies will likely not support our intervention".

Then you noted "we - and all of NATO - will be obligated to assist in their defense".

If we, and all of NATO, are obligated, won't the majority of our allies be in exactly the same boat?

[Bene Futuis]

Apologies for my ignorance here, I'm having trouble reconciling this with your previous comment. Likely due to not fully grasping the specifics you are referring to.

Previously you noted that "a number of our traditional allies will likely not support our intervention".

Then you noted "we - and all of NATO - will be obligated to assist in their defense".

If we, and all of NATO, are obligated, won't the majority of our allies be in exactly the same boat?

I don't mean to speak for chance, but I believe he was saying that the obligation will only begin once (or if) Ukraine becomes a full member of NATO, thereby triggering defense obligations of partner nations. As of right now, they're not in NATO, so if we - the U.S. - decide to go boots-on-the-ground fighting over there, not only will the NATO signatories not participate, our traditional allies will also likely not support.

[chancellor]

I don't mean to speak for chance, but I believe he was saying that the obligation will only begin once (or if) Ukraine becomes a full member of NATO, thereby triggering defense obligations of partner nations. As of right now, they're not in NATO, so if we - the U.S. - decide to go boots-on-the-ground fighting over there, not only will the NATO signatories not participate, our traditional allies will also likely not support.

You spoke correctly, thanks much!

[Ken]

You spoke correctly, thanks much!

That doesn’t really make sense with this context from previously.

“ I partially agree that Carlson isn't wrong here (though that NATO quote is just stupid to connect with his audience), but I also don't see Biden launching a new war either; he will just deploy economic sanctions.”

You're likely correct, though my concern is the heavy interest of getting Ukraine into NATO. I also agree Carlson's remark is borderline moronic.

I’m not trying to be critical but it seems like the goalposts on this argument keep moving so fast that you’d get dizzy trying to keep up.

[Bene Futuis]

The GOP just announced they are paying for fake billionaire former guy's legal bills regarding the New York investigations into Former Guy, Inc. business practices - $1.6 million and all for stuff that predates the presidency. Clown party.

[Bene Futuis]

"An Atlanta-area district attorney investigating former President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election results in Georgia will be allowed to seat a special grand jury this spring.

Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis requested last week to seat a special grand jury starting May 2. Fulton County Superior Court judges approved the request on Monday.

Though the special grand jury does not have the authority to issue an indictment, the move will allow Willis to seat a panel entirely focused on gathering evidence in the Trump investigation. She said she needed such a grand jury in order to issue subpoenas to compel witnesses to testify and to gather additional evidence -- a step toward pursuing possible criminal charges."

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/24/politics/georgia-trump-grand-jury/index.html

Crooked ol' former guy is gonna set the world record for most simultaneous investigations.

[madducks]

Wouldn't it be funny if Mike Pence beat Donald Trump in the primaries?

[Sour Masher]

Wouldn't it be funny if Mike Pence beat Donald Trump in the primaries?

I mean, they are both reprehensible to me from a policy standpoint, and the idea of a Mike Pence presidency fills me will most of the same dread as a Trump one, minus the very significant additional dread of having someone in power than wants to overthrow democracy and put America on a path to despotism. But yeah, it would be hilarious to see Trump lose in the primaries, to Pence, or even more ideally to a centrist, because you just know he will say the primaries are rigged too.

[Bene Futuis]

So, the dim orange bulb brought 15 boxes of executive documents to Mar a Lago, including classified documents. We're hearing that he regularly ripped up documents that should have been preserved, requiring his people to tape them back together before submission to Nat'l Archives. And he even ripped up and flushed documents down the toilet.

Where are all the "but her emails" hypocrites now? Liberal media, my ass.

Edit: And not to fat shame the rotund former guy, but he reportedly ATE a document, too. Yes, ate.

[Sour Masher]

Edit: And not to fat shame the rotund former guy, but he reportedly ATE a document, too. Yes, ate.

I would have NOT wanted to be the guy who had to piece that one together on the other end.

Seriously, everything you post about the former wanna be despot is true and horrible and outrage inducing. I've tried to back away from thinking too much about him and what he did now, though. It was really unhealthy for me when he was POTUS. It ate at me unlike anything else in politics ever. The sad reality is no matter how obviously vile he is and how horrific his actions were as POTUS, he won't be brought to task for any of this (not really), so continuing to think about just how much wrong he did will just enrage me about how cowardly and self-serving the rest of the politicians in this country are. On that note, as a former Kentucky resident, I never thought I'd applaud Mitch for anything, but good for him for doing the most basic thing a politician should do--state the patently obvious reality of what happened in the 2020 election and on Jan 6th. The idea that the bar is now so low that Mitch is clearing it while far too many of his colleagues are not--scary times.

[The Feral Slasher]

I would have NOT wanted to be the guy who had to piece that one together on the other end.

Seriously, everything you post about the former wanna be despot is true and horrible and outrage inducing. I've tried to back away from thinking too much about him and what he did now, though. It was really unhealthy for me when he was POTUS. It ate at me unlike anything else in politics ever. The sad reality is no matter how obviously vile he is and how horrific his actions were as POTUS, he won't be brought to task for any of this (not really), so continuing to think about just how much wrong he did will just enrage me about how cowardly and self-serving the rest of the politicians in this country are. On that note, as a former Kentucky resident, I never thought I'd applaud Mitch for anything, but good for him for doing the most basic thing a politician should do--state the patently obvious reality of what happened in the 2020 election and on Jan 6th. The idea that the bar is now so low that Mitch is clearing it while far too many of his colleagues are not--scary times.

apparently you have exceeded your storage capacity of private messages....anyway I thought your post was good.

[Sour Masher]

apparently you have exceeded your storage capacity of private messages....anyway I thought your post was good.

Sorry. I made some room.

[Ken]

Sorry. I made some room.

Did you piece it back together on the other end?

[umjewman]

Did you piece it back together on the other end?

I see what you did there!