Covid Vaccine thread

[nullnor]

even tho children might be a natural reservoir, I don't think people want to sacrifice them to feels safe.

[GwynnInTheHall]

It's real simple nullnor. It's easier to die from getting covid than it is to die from the vaccine. It's easier to GET the virus if you're not vaccinated.

If you are playing the odds, get the vaccine.

Math baby.

[Ken]

It's real simple nullnor. It's easier to die from getting covid than it is to die from the vaccine. It's easier to GET the virus if you're not vaccinated.

If you are playing the odds, get the vaccine.

Math baby.

All of the above is true, AND, if you replace the words "get" with "transmit", and "die" with "cause someone else to die ", the social aspect of this becomes more salient.

[GwynnInTheHall]

https://www.theadvocate.com/acadiana...4d4de6950.html

[nullnor]

pretty sure it doesn't write to DNA. you'd have to be infected with a retrovirus at the same time and even then I think they said the chance was very small. even if it did which I doubt, who is to say it would do anything. there are non peer reviewed papers that speculate.

I got kind of drunk at the end last night. I've been reading the comment section of the blog I posted about ADE. it seems informative. it's definitely not an antivaxx site. this guy had a good comment.

Eric says 8 March, 2021 at 2:13 am

I spent quite few years working on dengue ADE. I tried to build a dengue mouse model using wild-type mouse by mixing anti-dengue antibody with virus particles before infecting mice. In my hand, I could only observe ADE with lower concentration of antibody. Too much antibody then I can not see ADE.
For people with less experience in ADE, it’s easy to think when you don’t see ADE NOW, you won’t see ADE in the FUTURE. Philippine actually realized there is ADE from dengue vaccine after 3 years.
For COVID vaccine, I’d suggest setting up an animal study with serial diluted vaccines and longer observation time to observe whether weaker immune response or waned antibody would elicit ADE.

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipelin...virus-vaccines

so what they are saying is you can't see signs of ADE until antibodies go down. so in theory if people keep getting reinfected by variants (it can happen from natural infection I think) or keep getting booster shots, there won't be opportunities to tell. of course presumably if people who are fully vaccinated start getting severe covid, then you could tell. which isn't happening as the vaccines are working as effective as they said they would. if you have the time I do recommend reading the comments, they seem like a smart informed group of people.

[nullnor]

also, I was kidding when I said I worked as an airline food critic. obviously.

[nullnor]

this paper has some additional info on the ADE problem that happened with the RSV and Dengue vaccines https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-020-00462-y Learning from the past: development of safe and effective COVID-19 vaccines

Thus, throughout the 50-year history of exploring RSV vaccines, we have learnt the absolute necessity of tracking the comprehensive safety of vaccines before large-scale application, no matter the urgency of the moment. From the RSV experience, we still do not know what features of an antigen will create disease exacerbation.

Similarly to RSV, the development of dengue vaccines started with an inactivated virus-based vaccine....
Still, valuable lessons can be learnt from the long and challenging task of developing a dengue vaccine. First, aside from neutralizing activity, we know that the titre of antibodies induced by any vaccine should be fully evaluated. Low titres of NAbs caused ADE in subsequent infection, instead of providing protection, as observed in both DENV infection and RSV infection.. ADE was also observed in (original) SARS vaccines.

The phenomenon of VADE has, however, erected substantial barriers to the development of vaccines for some viruses, including, RSV, DENV, SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV. Currently, the unabated spread of COVID-19 has prompted several countries to rush into local vaccine approval without a comprehensive safety evaluation. Vaccines for viruses with high transmissibility but low case fatality, such as SARS-CoV-2, should usually have a higher bar for safety than those for viruses with low transmissibility but high case fatality, such as Ebola virus, because many more healthy individuals will have to use them.

[nullnor]

I would never presume to tell anyone what they should do. kind of like baseball, I am into it, but any recommendation can blow up. also, being a time traveler I have to be careful not to create a paradox. heh

I know when I am on and I know when I am off. do you ever say, wow nullnor is fucking stupid. and then you say, damn he's fucking on right now. if I was a professor at a college, the school would hide me in a last office down the hall or a basement. I would be the guy that you come to when you've ran out of all options. people would whisper and say, well.. you have no other choice but to go see him. I may not be able to tell you what to do, but I might be able to give you some ideas so you can help yourself. I am a last resort thing.

I am your science guy. it's like when gene Hackman said to Will Smith in enemy of the state, you are either incredibly smart, or incredibly stupid.

I think you guys should still keep wearing your mask and act like the pandemic hasn't changed. don't get covid fatigue. it's not over.

[nullnor]

lets go through a what if scenario.

1) everything works out and the world is saved.
2) the vaccines work for the most part, but with tiny problems.
a) it doesn't matter eid elpoep wefa (my computer decided to type backwards again). vaccine trust is increased.
b) it does matter, and antivaxx people become even more hardened.
3) in 10 years covid becomes the flu or even better the common cold, and since everyone is malleable and wishy-washy, no-one gives a shit.
4) medical science totally triumphs and takes another step towards curing cancer from the risk and experience.
5) due to the success we start trying to cure everything and fuck up a little, but no-one really notices.
6) because of the success, people still just live unhealthy lives expecting science to mweht lailets (I swear I am going to shoot my computer) bail us out.
7) we suddenly realize that every time there is a pandemic it always gets worse from before.
8) we realize nature is stalking us.
9) over 300 vertebrae animals can be reservoirs for COV2. and the virus randomly decides to change because it decides humans suck and mutates and finds a better reservoir and goes away.
10) antibody dependent enhancement is very real. and we just fucked ourselves by panicking and rolling out an experimental vaccine that has actually never worked before, and we end up killing billions of people.
11) Marlon Brando rises from the grave and after a vaccine deployment he quotes Apocalypse Now and says He couldn't see. We went back there and they had come and hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms.

[The Feral Slasher]

lets go through a what if scenario.

1) everything works out and the world is saved.
2) the vaccines work for the most part, but with tiny problems.
a) it doesn't matter eid elpoep wefa (my computer decided to type backwards again). vaccine trust is increased.
b) it does matter, and antivaxx people become even more hardened.
3) in 10 years covid becomes the flu or even better the common cold, and since everyone is malleable and wishy-washy, no-one gives a shit.
4) medical science totally triumphs and takes another step towards curing cancer from the risk and experience.
5) due to the success we start trying to cure everything and fuck up a little, but no-one really notices.
6) because of the success, people still just live unhealthy lives expecting science to mweht lailets (I swear I am going to shoot my computer) bail us out.
7) we suddenly realize that every time there is a pandemic it always gets worse from before.
8) we realize nature is stalking us.
9) over 300 vertebrae animals can be reservoirs for COV2. and the virus randomly decides to change because it decides humans suck and mutates and finds a better reservoir and goes away.
10) antibody dependent enhancement is very real. and we just fucked ourselves by panicking and rolling out an experimental vaccine that has actually never worked before, and we end up killing billions of people.
11) Marlon Brando rises from the grave and after a vaccine deployment he quotes Apocalypse Now and says He couldn't see. We went back there and they had come and hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms.

Too much for my tiny slasher brain to consider

[nullnor]

I hope that wasn't intense. I can tell you, when I dealt with my cat, my four-legged child, the first rule was, not to overreact. the vets were very hesitant. it was always a wait and see thing. and then if you had to, then you did something. I think that is a good rule. as this disease goes on, the treatments can only get better. until you are sure and we have more experience, there are or will be plenty of back up plans outside of vaccination. it's not a decision you should have to be forced into yet.

[nullnor]

actually it was revo that inspired me to look that stuff up. he's the only one that asked me a question. feral sort of asked me, and that inspired me too. but he didn't really mean it. heh. yeah know, it's great when all you need is that little push.

it's not hard, to figure everything out. be a fucking genius dudes. you can do it. the world needs you.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I hope that wasn't intense. I can tell you, when I dealt with my cat, my four-legged child, the first rule was, not to overreact. the vets were very hesitant. it was always a wait and see thing. and then if you had to, then you did something. I think that is a good rule. as this disease goes on, the treatments can only get better. until you are sure and we have more experience, there are or will be plenty of back up plans outside of vaccination. it's not a decision you should have to be forced into yet.

How about this--you refuse to be vaccinated, you get covid, you infect someone (it's traced to you), they die, you go to jail or are forced to compensate that persons family by working to support them if that persons death leaves a financial void.

If you're going to make any choice, there should be some accountability or is your position just to say fuck everyone else--I'm gonna do me-so piss off?

[nullnor]

there's all kinds of problems with your scenario.

you are an accountability guy. that's your strength.

the worst thing you can ever say is fuck everyone else. but eventually, you are going to have to. because deep down everyone is only out for themselves. ..and I am not actually sure when this happened. maybe it was always like that and I just got older and noticed.

so you find something you really care about. for me it's animals. I won't tell you what I went through or costs to get that pit-bull boxer in literally the best shelter in my state. and I also bought a sailboat. I got a nice RV and found a place to live, but my entire goal was to save the dog, not myself. because I am really good at shit like that. and people like to show off about things they are good at.

[GwynnInTheHall]

there's all kinds of problems with your scenario.

you are an accountability guy. that's your strength.

the worst thing you can ever say is fuck everyone else. but eventually, you are going to have to. because deep down everyone is only out for themselves. ..and I am not actually sure when this happened. maybe it was always like that and I just got older and noticed.

so you find something you really care about. for me it's animals. I won't tell you what I went through or costs to get that pit-bull boxer in literally the best shelter in my state. and I also bought a sailboat. I got a nice RV and found a place to live, but my entire goal was to save the dog, not myself. because I am really good at shit like that. and people like to show off about things they are good at.

OK.

So say there's a guy who doesn't care about animals like you've chosen not to care about people.

He drives through your rv park way too fast because pets are other people's responsibility.

He hits the dog you have gone to great lengths to save and make a part of your life.

Are you going to be as casual towards the dude in the car as you are towards covid and your responsibility to others?