Covid Vaccine thread

[revo]

i'll be the first to admit if the vaccine strategy goes south, and backfires, and the morons that were fortunate to not get a jab in the arm for a lottery or shotgun out live us all, the world would be a worse place.

What does this mean? Has there ever been a vaccine that "went south?" Sure, some tests for vaccines didn't go well (i.e. polio), but for an the actual vaccine?

[Sour Masher]

If everyone says "you first", nothing ever happens. We'd need people who say "me first".

That would apply to those who believe climate change is a problem. If my memory is accurate, Chance does not. For those of us who do, I agree, we need to walk the walk, but the reality is our impact is small given the constraints we have from government. I recycle, but it is depressing if you look into where that actually goes and what impact it actually has. I try to drive less and I don't eat meat (mostly), but none of it is enough if we don't collectively vote for large-scale change. We have to make it easy and maybe something mandatory to really move the needle. I believe there are ways to do it in our current system. Musk is doing a heck of a job making electric cars cool. The slow transition from ICE, and the slow shift to cleaner electric power, and I hope better, more environmentally friendly batteries, is going to have a huge impact. It won't be enough on its own, but I hope the fact that his gameplan happened to also make him the richest person on the planet will motivate others. I don't care if their motives are pure or if they are always consistent in their personal lives with their corporate mission as much as I do the results.

[GwynnInTheHall]

That would apply to those who believe climate change is a problem. If my memory is accurate, Chance does not.

Chance has been wrong before....

[revo]

repurposed drugs like ivermectin or something. I hear vitamin B12 is good. vitamin D. but finding the right one is like the wild west right now. treatment, prevention. exercising and eating healthy. do the things that build up your immune system. and as a last resort, infection. and natural immunity. until I get older and my immune system weakens and the virus finally kills me. that's my plan. to the end of the revolution!

Why go through all this? What is the point? What is the cost comparison vs. a free shot? Getting back at Big Pharma?

[chancellor]

Chance has been wrong before....

I have been, and will be. But whether I believed in how it's portrayed or no, my POV would still be the same - if the elites of our country (and others) are stating actions us proles have to take....they can take the first step. Hypocrisy, to me, is a sure sign of falsehood.

[chancellor]

If everyone says "you first", nothing ever happens. We'd need people who say "me first".

Then, gosh, maybe they should live their lives like they believe the message, no?

[revo]

Several have said explicitly that since the vast majority of those who die are old (about 80% of those who die of COVID are over age 65 and 95% of are over age 50), it isn't that big of a deal to just let it run its course. Heck, maybe that will help prolong SS insolvency, I bet some think. Why take any risk in rushing to vaccinate an entire population when almost all of those who will continue dying of the disease are old and no longer productive members of society, or don't have many years of productivity left? To be clear, that is not my position, but it seems clear to me that many anti-vaxxers feel this way.

I find it interesting that these right wingnuts cherrypick the science they want to believe. Seeing that covid only kills 0.5% of those under 50 is good, but also seeing that the vaccine has side effects in 0.0001% of those who took it is outrageous.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I have been, and will be. But whether I believed in how it's portrayed or no, my POV would still be the same - if the elites of our country (and others) are stating actions us proles have to take....they can take the first step. Hypocrisy, to me, is a sure sign of falsehood.

Agreed.

[Bene Futuis]

I agree with GITH's recent post, but do have a difference of opinion on leadership behavior on COVID versus climate change. Every leader I'm aware of - in politics, sport, arts - who is advocating for Americans to get vaccinated are vaccinated. However, every leader I'm aware of in the same fields who are crying about climate change follow the most climate reckless behaviors known. Take, for example, the recent get-together in Sun Valley. West Coast air traffic needed to be temporarily shut down to....the number of private jets flying in. Key topic? Climate change.

It's not a clan issue, it's that us poor proles don't respond well when the elites are such obvious hypocrites.

This is not a logical comparison, coronavirus to global warming.

Hypocrisy, to me, is a sure sign of falsehood.

This doesn't make sense.

[Sour Masher]

I have been, and will be. But whether I believed in how it's portrayed or no, my POV would still be the same - if the elites of our country (and others) are stating actions us proles have to take....they can take the first step. Hypocrisy, to me, is a sure sign of falsehood.

It is impractical to not be a hypocrite when it comes to climate change as an individual. Everything we do has an impact. Transportation and food are just two pieces of the puzzle. As an example, concrete, specifically cement, accounts for about 8% of all green house gases we produce. If you live or work in a building with concrete in it, your lifestyle is part of the problem. But what are we gonna do, abandon civilization? A better solution is developing greener cement/concrete options, which we are working on. There are a lot of solutions out there that would help a lot, if we have the collective will to implement them. It isn't going to happen just by us regular folks recycling and driving less and not using plastic bags at the market. Big changes are needed, with big vision and drive behind them. We are now moving back in the right direction in this country, but still too slowly and without as much urgency as needed.

[Sour Masher]

This doesn't make sense.

I agree. That is like going to a doctor who tells you to stop eating crap and lose weight, but he is a big fatty eating a Big Mac while telling you to eat veggies and exercise. Just because he tells you to do something he isn't does not make his advice false. And how many parents smoke and tell their kids not to? Them smoking doesn't make the fact that smoking causes cancer a falsehood.

[Ken]

Then, gosh, maybe they should live their lives like they believe the message, no?

You whiffed on the point. Forget "they". It's not about "they". For that problem to be solved it takes a lot of "me's" (Me included).

If you are a science disbeliever, there's nothing logical anyone can tell you to make sense of global warming. You just don't believe reality. And I guess that's okay. In that case there's no point in even discussing anything here though.

If you do believe in the science, then talking about what *other* people do as a reason for you to not do something is ridiculous. It's the "but he started it" garbage that you did with your siblings as a child. It doesn't solve any problems, it's just petty excuses to continue living your life how you want without regard to the future. I get it, trust me, but trying to rationalize it by blaming other people is silly at best.

[Bene Futuis]

It is impractical to not be a hypocrite when it comes to climate change as an individual. Everything we do has an impact. Transportation and food are just two pieces of the puzzle.

I drive sometimes instead of riding my bike. Therefore, I should not be able to state my opposition to coal burning power plants.......or something. I just don't even begin to understand this mindset at all. Global warming is real, enormous private and state actors make a disproportionate impact on the warming of the earth, and my own actions, while potentially a feel-good for myself, are negligible overall. If you want to make a real impact to combat global warming, vote the fucking deniers out and support those that espouse progressive environmental policy. I mean, who gives a shit what the billionaires are doing at Davos or whether Leonardo DiCaprio drives a Prius? That has absolutely zero to do with combating climate change. Like if Bob Barker was discovered to have pets that weren't spayed or neutered, would it mean that the entire spay/neuter policy is a falsehood? Not so much.

[Sour Masher]

I drive sometimes instead of riding my bike. Therefore, I should not be able to state my opposition to coal burning power plants.......or something. I just don't even begin to understand this mindset at all. Global warming is real, enormous private and state actors make a disproportionate impact on the warming of the earth, and my own actions, while potentially a feel-good for myself, are negligible overall. If you want to make a real impact to combat global warming, vote the fucking deniers out and support those that espouse progressive environmental policy. I mean, who gives a shit what the billionaires are doing at Davos or whether Leonardo DiCaprio drives a Prius? That has absolutely zero to do with combating climate change. Like if Bob Barker was discovered to have pets that weren't spayed or neutered, would it mean that the entire spay/neuter policy is a falsehood? Not so much.

Yeah, I'm with you. Big changes are needed. You can dissect the behavior of big proponents for that change and identify inconsistencies, but it has no bearing on the urgency of the issue. To deny climate change is real and having a real impact on our planet and all living things on it is to deny science just as much as with vaccines. But the changes needed require a lot more than developing one vaccine and getting everyone to get one or two shots, so it is a tougher lift. It is doable, though, and I don't care how it gets done. Big government solutions, I'm on board. Capitalists looking to make a lot of green on going green--if it works, get paid, get laid, have it made, here is my money.

If the guy who is instrumental in replacing current CO2 producing cement with a viable non-CO2 alternative makes billions and uses that money to build all his mansions with the old school cement, cuz he likes the smell or finds the contradiction amusing, it makes little difference. He still helped make the world more habitable for everyone else.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Anyone who doesn't believe Humans caused/exacerbated climate change has never owned an aquarium.