Covid Vaccine thread

[GwynnInTheHall]

I don't disagree with what you wrote (ha !) Sometimes I think it is good to let people think thru things themselves and respond instead of telling them how things are (from my viewpoint).

EDIT: I was actually thinking about getting together with some friends who sometime bring up politics that my wife and I don't agree with. I was thinking of explaining to them that I am happy to listen to how they feel and why they believe the way they do in order to understand them, but I have no interest in them explaining to me why I am wrong and they are right. They probably have no interest in me explaining to them why they are wrong either.

I get that, but when their viewpoint is dangerous, when do we step in and do something? Say something? Shout something?

When it comes to Covid, the vaccines and what to do--there really aren't two equal sides--there is right and wrong.

Getting the vaccines reduces the chances of it spreading, mutation and becoming more virulent--that's not a veiwpoint--it's facts.

I get sharing veiwpoints like, what's the best way to make salsa or how can my favorite team improve it's chances to go to the playoffs, but science is for the most part--exact.

I've watched this thing decimate some of my friends, their families and not just old people, but young ones too. One of my college buddies 40 something wife will have to be on Oxygen the rest of her life and she's lucky that she lived. They have a child about 12-13 ish. and that's just ONE of several people I know who's lives have been devastated by this Virus.

I have no patience (or less than the little I have usually) for this anti vax shit. Anyone still refusing top get a vaccine without an actual medical condition that would make getting one dangerous can--from my viewpoint--go fuck themselves.

[The Feral Slasher]

I get that, but when their viewpoint is dangerous, when do we step in and do something? Say something? Shout something?

When it comes to Covid, the vaccines and what to do--there really aren't two equal sides--there is right and wrong.

Getting the vaccines reduces the chances of it spreading, mutation and becoming more virulent--that's not a veiwpoint--it's facts.

I get sharing veiwpoints like, what's the best way to make salsa or how can my favorite team improve it's chances to go to the playoffs, but science is for the most part--exact.

I've watched this thing decimate some of my friends, their families and not just old people, but young ones too. One of my college buddies 40 something wife will have to be on Oxygen the rest of her life and she's lucky that she lived. They have a child about 12-13 ish. and that's just ONE of several people I know who's lives have been devastated by this Virus.

I have no patience (or less than the little I have usually) for this anti vax shit. Anyone still refusing top get a vaccine without an actual medical condition that would make getting one dangerous can--from my viewpoint--go fuck themselves.

I'm sure I agree with you about vaccination, I am just wondering what is the right approach to engage with anti-vaccers or people of differing view in general. Telling them to fuck themselves is certainly one approach

[nullnor]

I live in fear of being accused of not being vaccinated while wearing a mask.

and the accusations would be bad science. the argument is mutations, but there is no way to stop a coronavirus.

[nullnor]

if you guys compare this vaccination program to any other in the past, or compare every other vaccine to this one in history, this tell me that I know you don't know what you are talking about. it's gene therapy. it's only recently been being used and never for vaccines until every panicked. hey it may work out, you never know. like when you need to fix a bolt on your engine block and you are like oh shit it's so rusted. and then it works.

[nullnor]

just because you've personally seen people die from this doesn't change things.

[nullnor]

i'll be the first to admit if the vaccine strategy goes south, and backfires, and the morons that were fortunate to not get a jab in the arm for a lottery or shotgun out live us all, the world would be a worse place.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I'm sure I agree with you about vaccination, I am just wondering what is the right approach to engage with anti-vaccers or people of differing view in general. Telling them to fuck themselves is certainly one approach

I don't really think I can change people minds, if you're an Anti Vaxxer, a Racist, a Nazi--what can I really say to change your mind? And FWIW, I usually start out attempting to have a reasonable conversation, but as time goes by and reason is nowhere to be found--well then--I abandon all filter--stop caring about convincing and settle for smaller more Schadenfreude outcomes

[nullnor]

my vision of so-called death panels was from the movie Soylent Green.

is soylent green,
people?
or is it something else
is soylent green,
money?
or is it something else?
is soylent green nature
does the universe cannibalize itself
do atoms

this is how liberals talk now. we use pop culture to express ourselves.
i always thought the whole death panel Sara Palin thing was a red pill.

at least i know when i die i won't be strapped in a chair watching movies.

[nullnor]

suddenly anti vaxx people are Racist, and Nazi. you hope for my death? you say i am to blame? if the coronavirus never goes away it will be my fault?
that's what i see on message boards about people not being vaccinated.

and i say to them, your are not actually very at good science. i expected better.

[nullnor]

i don't know im sorry dude. if i ever did something here and fucked up and anyone held it against me, shit happens. there's no take backs. life goes on. ..

[GwynnInTheHall]

suddenly anti vaxx people are Racist, and Nazi. you hope for my death? you say i am to blame? if the coronavirus never goes away it will be my fault?
that's what i see on message boards about people not being vaccinated.

and i say to them, your are not actually very at good science. i expected better.

No Nullie, Racists, Nazis and Anti Vaxxers are Unreasonable not interconnected in ideology. Never hoped for your death. Blame? Fault? If you're unvaccinated, you certainly are not part of the solution. BUT There are a lot of reasons this thing has gotten out of hand in the manner it has. So there's plenty of blame to go around.

I love ya brother, but the science is on the side of the vaccinated.

I mean, I LOVE Cats, but I have to go with the Epidemiologists on this one.

[nullnor]

seems unlikely that the vaccine will kill billions of people, but if you have some info to share on that risk I am sure we would all like to hear it. Without vaccines we know that many millions will die, since over 4 million people have already died.

im specifically talking about the risk of ADE. I have to do some reading about it myself. this blog about it is a good place to start I guess. https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipelin...virus-vaccines

The SARS experience taught us a lot of extremely useful lessons, as it turned out. SARS-Cov-2 is rather closely related to the 2003 SARS coronavirus, and if you’re going to have a worldwide pandemic, you’re far better off with one that’s so much like something you’ve already poured R&D investments into! In this case, the two big take-homes were that coronavirus vaccines could indeed suffer from ADE

So here’s the short version: no sign of ADE during the preclinical animal studies. No sign during the human clinical trials. No sign during the initial vaccine rollouts into the population. And (so far) no sign of ADE even with the variant strains in different parts of the world. We have things to worry about in this pandemic, but as far as I can tell today, antibody-dependent enhancement does not seem to be one of them. I understand why people would worry about it, and want to avoid it. But if you’re coming across reports that say that it’s a real problem right now and that you should avoid getting vaccinated because of it, well, I just don’t see it. Some of that is well-intentioned caution

also, sure unvaccinated people are increasing mutations. I said this when people weren't wearing masks. but this isn't smallpox or polio, I don't think they had natural reservoirs like coronaviruses do. or maybe you are right, even if dogs and cats and mice and ferrets or any animal with humanlike ACE2 receptors, with the exception of minks, can be infected but can't transmit the virus to humans, for now.

some people have recently speculated that we are seeing the first signs of ADE in the UK from the delta variant, it seems like a small sample size so lets hope not. I don't tell people they shouldn't get vaccinated, in fact I tell one of the old guys here he should get vaccinated as the benefit outweighs the risk. but for myself it's my own personal choice until I fully understand better what is going on. and it's a choice that may kill me. but the pro-vaccine camp isn't aware there is a risk. we definitely shouldn't be vaccinating children under 12 until we know for sure, so entitled grandma can go on continuing to rule the world.

[nullnor]

unless children under 12 have a comorbid condition, then they should get vaccinated if they have one.

[chancellor]

I love ya brother, but the science is on the side of the vaccinated.

Unless you've already had COVID-19. Studies in the UK and US (Cleveland Clinic and UCLA, pre-peer reviewed) indicate no additional benefit from vaccination if one has already been infected.

[Sour Masher]

unless children under 12 have a comorbid condition, then they should get vaccinated if they have one.

I think I have said before, when it comes to kids, who are statistically the least likely to die of COVID, and have the most life left to live, so the most to lose if there are long term complications, I am sympathetic to those who have hesitation about any new, very quickly developed vaccination. My wife and I are done having kids, so we have nothing left to give to the gene pool at this point, and since people weren't keeling over days after getting the vaccine, and a cursory look at the data suggested it was as safe as can be, it was a no brainer for us to get vaxxed just as soon as we could and we knew there were enough for older folks and those most at risk to get it, which we did.

But we have always hoped that enough adults would get vaxxed that maybe there would be no need to rush to get the under 12s vaxxed. To be clear, once the vaccine is cleared for kids, and we know for certain what the right dosage is for them and that it is as safe as can be, we will get our 3 and 6 year old vaxxed. But as cliche as it is, I have found that being a parent changes your thinking. I had absolutely 0% hesitation about getting myself vaccinated, but when it comes to kids, I get the super, duper caution involved, especially if numbers stay down. It makes me more inclined to want to wait until as much data is in as possible. Of course, eventually you have to get it, just like for every other disease out there, because that is what is good for the overall population and the individuals in it. But you have to admit that there is a difference between an established vaccine that has been administered for decades and a brand new one that was developed at record pace. Even if the data shows nothing at all to worry about, I think it is natural for parents to have some caution, especially if the overall infection numbers remain low. Things look great with these vaccines. I feel really good about them. But I am anxious to see how much data in young kids will be available once they get approved for younger kids. And I am curious if dosage will change. It seems odd to me that a 20 lbs toddler would get the same dosage as a 400 lb man, but right now, I believe it is a one dose fits all situation. I have read some data that suggests less of a dose for smaller women is proven just as effective, but for simplicities sake, it has been one size fits all so far.