And so it has begun

[Gregg]

I understand where you are coming from; that said, do you see how the "both sides" argument can be problematic? Where do you personally draw the line to where it's no longer appropriate to engage the whataboutism tactic?

I do.

Where do I draw the line. Great question. I would say I draw the line at personal conduct. If my neighbor steals from me, it is not OK to justify vandalizing his car. When I get arrested the what about what he did to me does not hold up.

I would say the best use of whataboutism is in the discussion of hypocrisy. In a board discussion posing that one party is the supreme authority of moral correctness might come with whatabout the log in your Parties eye. This does not excuse the real life actions of either. Board discussions seem to be something else.

Even though this is the hot button topic section. I do not see why we cannot treat each other civil when discussing the hot button topics.

[Ken]

I do.

Where do I draw the line. Great question. I would say I draw the line at personal conduct. If my neighbor steals from me, it is not OK to justify vandalizing his car. When I get arrested the what about what he did to me does not hold up.

I would say the best use of whataboutism is in the discussion of hypocrisy. In a board discussion posing that one party is the supreme authority of moral correctness might come with whatabout the log in your Parties eye. This does not excuse the real life actions of either. Board discussions seem to be something else.

Even though this is the hot button topic section. I do not see why we cannot treat each other civil when discussing the hot button topics.

I should clarify.

I agree with you that we can/should be civil. The notion posted above that if you don't want to take crap for posting your opinion then you should get out is comical. It's only like that because of that behavior, which can just as easily stop. Will it likely do so? Maybe not, but the idea that you should leave because you don't enjoy getting yelled at for your opinion is a joke.

That said, what I was talking about was the "Both sides are bad on some levels." While it can be true at different levels, that gaslights the real issue being discussed and it's not useful IMO.

[Sour Masher]

That said, what I was talking about was the "Both sides are bad on some levels." While it can be true at different levels, that gaslights the real issue being discussed and it's not useful IMO.

It also allows us all to continue to justify and tolerate what is universally accepted as bad behavior in a never-ending cycle. Defending something by looking through history for examples of the "other side" doing bad too is never the right thing to do. The right thing to do is acknowledge "your side" is wrong in that moment and save the attack on the "other side" for the next instance they do the same sort of thing at which point, in a better world, everyone on both sides would once again agree that the behavior is bad and should be reprimanded and corrected.

I recognize that there are examples of Dems not self-policing and owning up enough, but to me, they have done a lot better job of it recently than those on the right. I wish everyone would call out bad behavior wherever they see it, no matter who is doing it. In fact, I think it is especially important to call it out from your own "team." I just watched Harry Potter with my boys, so I am reminded of what Dumbledore said to Neville at the end of the first movie-- paraphrasing, "it takes courage to stand up to your enemies, but it takes even more courage to stand up to your friends." I admire those few Republicans that have done that and stood up to Trump and all those that blindly follow him, ignoring all the horrible things he has done and said.

[Bene Futuis]

It is particularly hard to stomach the #bothsides stuff in a thread discussing a violent coup attempt by one of the sides, in my humble opinion.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I should clarify.

I agree with you that we can/should be civil. The notion posted above that if you don't want to take crap for posting your opinion then you should get out is comical. It's only like that because of that behavior, which can just as easily stop. Will it likely do so? Maybe not, but the idea that you should leave because you don't enjoy getting yelled at for your opinion is a joke.

That said, what I was talking about was the "Both sides are bad on some levels." While it can be true at different levels, that gaslights the real issue being discussed and it's not useful IMO.

I obviously Disagree.

[Ken]

I obviously Disagree.

I'm okay with that too!

And I enjoy your perspectives in here most of the time.

[Gregg]

That said, what I was talking about was the "Both sides are bad on some levels." While it can be true at different levels, that gaslights the real issue being discussed and it's not useful IMO.

I mostly agree with this. My example would be Discussing the events of Jan.6th 2021 should stand on it's own. It was/is a black eye for Republicans and the country. To justify the actions using whataboutism regarding Dems would/ should not come into play. It was an evil act that got out of hand. Those that are responsible should be punished. If should never happen again.

[Bene Futuis]

The Jan 6 committee now has in its possession text messages presumably about the insurrection between Ginni Thomas, SCOTUS Justice Clarence Thomas' wife, and Mark Meadows, former guy's chief of staff. Clarence Thomas has been hospitalized for the last several days to deal with a mystery health issue, in (hopefully?) unrelated news.


Edit: Oh, I almost forgot. Clarence Thomas was the ONLY “no” vote in an 8-1 decision to allow the release of Trump’s 1/6 documents showing plans to order the military to seize voting machines.

Edit 2 (electric boogaloo): Ginni Thomas' texts supposedly say that Trump should take "unrelenting efforts" to overturn the election. Holy shitballs.

[Bene Futuis]

A federal judge just wrote that Donald "I love the poorly educated" Trump likely committed multiple felonies in his efforts to overturn the will of the American people.

[heyelander]

A federal judge just wrote that Donald "I love the poorly educated" Trump likely committed multiple felonies in his efforts to overturn the will of the American people.

But it was all in good fun. Boys will be boys and all.

[Ken]

But it was all in good fun. Boys will be boys and all.

It was just locker room talk

[The Feral Slasher]

A federal judge just wrote that Donald "I love the poorly educated" Trump likely committed multiple felonies in his efforts to overturn the will of the American people.

Let's hope someone will hold him accountable

[Bene Futuis]

The judge wrote that the illegality of the Republican plan to overthrow the government was obvious. Idiot former guy's lawyer, John Eastman, is now forced to turn over emails to 1/6 committee.


John Eastman is part of the seditious conspiracy to engage in an insurrection against this country. He also reportedly told a Mike Pence aide that two Supreme Court justices would back him on his coup attempt. One of them was Clarence Thomas (the other hasn't been divulged). Eastman clerked for Justice Thomas in the 1990s and, as we know now, Clarence Thomas' wife was also a player in the seditious conspiracy.

[heyelander]

Let's hope someone will hold him accountable

The Judge? No doubt. This will probably hurt his career.

[The Feral Slasher]

The Judge? No doubt. This will probably hurt his career.

But is the judge actually doing anything to hold Trump accountable ? I don't pay that much attention to this stuff, but seems like someone should actually charge Trump and prosecute him. Who should be doing that ?