And so it has begun

[heyelander]

Republicans / MAGA cultists already blaming the presumptive recall loss in California on electoral fraud. This is what it has come to - any election where Republicans don't win, we have to listen to their lies about election fraud. Where they do win, magically there is no fraud. Places were up-ballot Republicans lose and down-ballot Republicans win is apparently some kind of special, mixed, superfraud from Venezuela or something.

Clown car rolls on.

no reasonable group of people could disagree with them, so something nefarious must be afoot.

[revo]

Republicans / MAGA cultists already blaming the presumptive recall loss in California on electoral fraud. This is what it has come to - any election where Republicans don't win, we have to listen to their lies about election fraud. Where they do win, magically there is no fraud. Places were up-ballot Republicans lose and down-ballot Republicans win is apparently some kind of special, mixed, superfraud from Venezuela or something.

Clown car rolls on.

PoliSci 101, if taught by a Republican:
1988 - Glorious victory!
1992 - Dems cheated
1996 - Dems cheated again
2000 - Glorious victory!
2004 - Glorious victory!
2008 - Dems cheated
2012 - Dems cheated again
2016 - Glorious victory!
2020 - Dems cheated

[Bene Futuis]

The top general in the U.S. at the time, Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Mark Milley, was so concerned about unhinged former guy's participation in the January 6 insurrection that he secretly took steps to prevent the orange fascist from "wagging the dog" and ordering serious military or even nuclear strikes. Bob Woodward wrote that Milley was sure that former guy was having a mental breakdown and could not be trusted. Milley made sure that any orders for any military strike would go through him.

Pelosi called Milley after the Jan. 6 coup attempt, furious and freaking out about former guy's finger on the button, saying "he's crazy, you know he's always been crazy." Milley told her, "Madam Speaker, I agree with you on everything."

All sorts of psychotic stuff the right will ignore again is soon to come out in Woodward's new book about the waning days of the worst administration in U.S. history, Peril.

[chancellor]

I'll actually be interested to see which ship this torpedo in the water hits. So far, Lt. Col Vindman, clearly no fan of Trump's, has deemed General Milley's actions at best worthy of his resignation, stating that Milley "usurped civilian authority, broke Chain of Command, and violated the sacrosanct principle of civilian control over the military". Ric Grenell, who's probably not sending Christmas cards to Gen. Milley, is defending Trump (yes, that was expected) AND Milley (wholly unexpected, IMO).

Gen. Milley hasn't commented yet, which surprises me not in the least. He's truly between Scylla and Charybdis here.

[Bene Futuis]

PoliSci 101, if taught by a Republican:
1988 - Glorious victory!
1992 - Dems cheated
1996 - Dems cheated again
2000 - Glorious victory!
2004 - Glorious victory!
2008 - Dems cheated
2012 - Dems cheated again
2016 - Glorious victory!
2020 - Dems cheated

The radio shock jock or whatever he is who is the Republican attempting to become governor of California has just announced that he has "detected fraud" in the results of the recall vote. The good news is this likely means that Newsom is going to prevail on the recall, or else why would this liar cry foul? The bad news for sane people is that there are no actual recall vote results yet, which makes jackdick's claim that he has detected fraud all the more idiotic. Just the absolute worst party. Ugh.

Edit: He is posting not-so-veiled threats on his website that violence may be required to fight this imaginary fraud. Sound familiar? This is the modern day Republican party.

[fuhrdog]

This is the modern day Republican party.

While i agree with you 100%...I'd expect it to continue since they are clearly getting away with it. The modern day Democratic party..."The Enablers"?

[Bene Futuis]

78% of Republicans believe Joe Biden did not win the 2020 election. I understand the existence of some few halfwits and conspiracy theorists, but that is four out of every five people on one side of the fence. How can so many be led into so obvious a lie and believe it?

[DMT]

78% of Republicans believe Joe Biden did not win the 2020 election. I understand the existence of some few halfwits and conspiracy theorists, but that is four out of every five people on one side of the fence. How can so many be led into so obvious a lie and believe it?

I think it was KS that mentioned this earlier, but those types of poll questions likely are tapping into many voters' tribalism rather their true beliefs.

[revo]

78% of Republicans believe Joe Biden did not win the 2020 election. I understand the existence of some few halfwits and conspiracy theorists, but that is four out of every five people on one side of the fence. How can so many be led into so obvious a lie and believe it?

Here's what I don't understand:

- Former Guy had been talking about the election being rigged for a solid year, which coincided with polls showing any Dem would beat him. If he "knew" about the election being "rigged" and yet, given a year, was absolutely powerless to stop it (despite being the most powerful man in the world), then why would GOPers want him back? Doesn't that in itself show how incompetent he really is? He's the warden who let the prisoners escape, despite knowing they would, and he's being lauded for it.

The whole thing is a conundrum of stupidity.

[heyelander]

I'll actually be interested to see which ship this torpedo in the water hits. So far, Lt. Col Vindman, clearly no fan of Trump's, has deemed General Milley's actions at best worthy of his resignation, stating that Milley "usurped civilian authority, broke Chain of Command, and violated the sacrosanct principle of civilian control over the military". Ric Grenell, who's probably not sending Christmas cards to Gen. Milley, is defending Trump (yes, that was expected) AND Milley (wholly unexpected, IMO).

Gen. Milley hasn't commented yet, which surprises me not in the least. He's truly between Scylla and Charybdis here.

I gotta say, not a fan of the military ignoring civilian authority.

That said, the legislative body needs to take their responsibilities more seriously and not allow for this kind of recklessness. It's scary how many people had to ignore their jobs for it to come to this.

[Bene Futuis]

I think it was KS that mentioned this earlier, but those types of poll questions likely are tapping into many voters' tribalism rather their true beliefs.

I think that's a pretty big assumption to make and have not seen any evidence to support it, much less to consider it to be "likely".

[Kevin Seitzer]

I think that's a pretty big assumption to make and have not seen any evidence to support it, much less to consider it to be "likely".

I agree that this poll is evidence that 78% out of the sample of 615 Republicans surveyed said "No" to the question:
"Thinking about the results of the 2020 presidential election, do you think that Joe Biden legitimately won enough votes to win the presidency, or not?"

I think it's a big leap to assume that reflects any somber consideration of the facts at hand rather than a more deeply-held tribal allegiance.

If you want to assert that there is no practical difference, I guess I still want to hold out hope that the large majority of Americans still believe we can hold functioning democratic elections and abide by the results? I agree there are frightful number of Republicans who don't think that any more, and that they seem to make up the majority of Republican primary voters these days. Maybe my hope for our democracy is false, and I'm prepared that it might be, but man, what a dark outcome that would be.

[DMT]

I think that's a pretty big assumption to make and have not seen any evidence to support it, much less to consider it to be "likely".

I don't think it's a significantly bigger assumption than all Republicans are truthfully responding to pollsters.

[Bene Futuis]

I agree that this poll is evidence that 78% out of the sample of 615 Republicans surveyed said "No" to the question:
"Thinking about the results of the 2020 presidential election, do you think that Joe Biden legitimately won enough votes to win the presidency, or not?"

I think it's a big leap to assume that reflects any somber consideration of the facts at hand rather than a more deeply-held tribal allegiance.

If you want to assert that there is no practical difference, I guess I still want to hold out hope that the large majority of Americans still believe we can hold functioning democratic elections and abide by the results? I agree there are frightful number of Republicans who don't think that any more, and that they seem to make up the majority of Republican primary voters these days. Maybe my hope for our democracy is false, and I'm prepared that it might be, but man, what a dark outcome that would be.

I'm sure you can divine what my thoughts are about the intellectual capacity of Republican voters in general, but that doesn't change my outlook here.

78% of Republican voters, whether through somber consideration or blind allegiance, do not believe Joe Biden legitimately won the presidency. We don't get to take the inputs and change them to our preconceived notions. I see no implicit bias in the question posed.


To your point about hope, I am sure that we can all hold on to at least a modicum of hope in knowing that Democrats believe in the integrity of federal elections and hold a very strong popular majority of millions of voters ahead of the Republicans. So if 95% of Democrats believe the federal election was legitimate and only 22% of Republicans feel the same, the total still represents a large majority of Americans who still believe we can hold functioning democratic elections. I feel like we often lose perspective that on nearly every one of these "left versus right" issues, Democrats hold strong popular support and Republicans represent the minority.

[Kevin Seitzer]

I'm sure you can divine what my thoughts are about the intellectual capacity of Republican voters in general, but that doesn't change my outlook here.

78% of Republican voters, whether through somber consideration or blind allegiance, do not believe Joe Biden legitimately won the presidency. We don't get to take the inputs and change them to our preconceived notions. I see no implicit bias in the question posed.

My point is not that there was a bias in the question posed, it's that there is a functional difference to our democracy between how many answered "No" because they truly believe the Democrats cheated and therefore don't trust elections going forward, and answering "No" because "fuck Joe Biden and those damn liberals, I'm not going to answer that question yes" even though they know the election was fundamentally fair.

I imagine it would be difficult to pose a question in a mail survey that would tease that out. The survey literally tests what they were willing to mark on a piece of paper. I don't trust your further claim that it is a true window into their beliefs. That's the leap of logic I'm not willing to make and for which I see no evidence. I'm not faulting the survey for that, I just don't think you can tell one way or the other what it means.