Originally posted by Sour Masher
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President Joseph Biden
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Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
George Orwell, 1984
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Originally posted by Ken View PostAt least they got housing and weekly minimum salary increases this year. You think they'll get anything from the new CBA?
But the idea that his spin on this will be, whatevs, miners are only a tiny fraction of my voters misses how big mining is to the fantasy a lot of folks embrace in WV. It is like the cowboy mythos. They have outsized influence for that reason.
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Originally posted by Sour Masher View PostHa, I had to double check my spelling there after this comment. But seriously, he will either sign an altered version that he can claim as a victory, or if he rejects it, he really has to explain it in a way that makes sense to appease miners and those that support them. This isn't about me defending the guy. He cost me money with his last round of this stuff, and he has cost the Dems and all the people who had high hopes for what they could get done so much. Believe me, I am not fan of his.
But the idea that his spin on this will be, whatevs, miners are only a tiny fraction of my voters misses how big mining is to the fantasy a lot of folks embrace in WV. It is like the cowboy mythos. They have outsized influence for that reason.---------------------------------------------
Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
---------------------------------------------
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
George Orwell, 1984
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Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View PostSo maybe I am missing something, but wouldn't supporting the miners union allow him to do that ?
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Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View PostBut his position is apparently against what the coal miners union wants. I'm struggling to understand this.
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Originally posted by Sour Masher View PostIt is at the moment. I am saying that will not last. I am saying he will eventually sign something that will make that union happy, or he will do what it takes to win them over in some other way. I'm just saying he cannot and will not completely dismiss coal miners and those that support them. It would be like a Republican saying "I don't care about the military." It isn't gonna happen. But we have seen time and again, repubs gets away with spinning bad policy for the military as good for them and being cheered for it. He will either have to do right by them or find a way to sell the wrong as right.---------------------------------------------
Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
George Orwell, 1984
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Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View Postok, this sounds like a completely different discussion. He is clearly not taking his current position because he is supporting coal miners as was suggested earlier.
Time will tell how he will win them over, but it ain't over yet. I assume he ends up signing once he gets whatever he wants out of the deal. He has all the power. He can play whatever games he wants right now, as long as when it is time to vote for him again, he can sell whatever the final outcome of this is to his constituents. Until we know the end game here, we don't actually know if his move here will help or hurt coal miners more. Maybe the final bill will have to include more pork for them. I don't think he will leave them hanging, and, again, that is not a argument about what is in his heart, or how he cares about the little people. He already said he thinks people will just blow tax credits on drugs and hunting trips. But we don't know the final outcome yet. I do know he will most assuredly screw a lot of people with the changes he demands, but I think that group will likely include me, but not coal miners in WV. It just would not make sense for him from a self-preservation standpoint.
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Originally posted by Sour Masher View PostMy pushback was on the idea that he does not care what coal miners think. I think he does, because he cares about maintaining power, and despite there only being 11k coal miners in WV, if he loses them (not just union leaders, but the rank and file), he would lose his seat. Time will tell how he will win them over, but it ain't over yet. I assume he ends up signing once he gets whatever he wants out of the deal. He has all the power. He can play whatever games he wants right now, as long as when it is time to vote for him again, he can sell whatever the final outcome of this is to his constituents. Until we know the end game here, we don't actually know if his move here will help or hurt coal miners more. Maybe the final bill will have to include more pork for them. I don't think he will leave them hanging, and, again, that is not a argument about what is in his heart, or how he cares about the little people. He already said he thinks people will just blow tax credits on drugs and hunting trips. But we don't know the final outcome yet. I do know he will most assuredly screw a lot of people with the changes he demands, but I think that group will likely include me, but not coal miners in WV. It just would not make sense for him from a self-preservation standpoint.---------------------------------------------
Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
---------------------------------------------
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
George Orwell, 1984
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Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View PostI am just struggling to believe that he is somehow supporting coal miners by ignoring what the coal miners union apparently wants. Also struggling to believe his position is based on what is good for his constituents. Anyway, I have said more than enough
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Originally posted by Sour Masher View PostNone of that matters much to him or most politicians. What matters is how his actions will be perceived. Right now, they are perceived negatively by the coal miners' union. Whether his actions ultimately help or hurt his voters, what I believe he will be very aware of is how they are perceived, not at this moment, but in the long run. Those two things may not end up lining up.---------------------------------------------
Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
George Orwell, 1984
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Originally posted by heyelander View Postthat's enough to kill anythingLast edited by The Feral Slasher; 12-21-2021, 08:17 PM.---------------------------------------------
Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
George Orwell, 1984
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Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View PostSo maybe I am missing something, but wouldn't supporting the miners union allow him to do that ?I'm just here for the baseball.
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Originally posted by chancellor View PostIf you believe union leadership actually represents the political views of their members. Reality is vastly different.
EDIT: I probably should say that if you think Joe Manchin actually represents coal miners, reality is vastly different.---------------------------------------------
Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
George Orwell, 1984
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Originally posted by chancellor View PostIf you believe union leadership actually represents the political views of their members. Reality is vastly different.
EDIT: I am probably far too cynical to have these conversations. Maybe Joe does care about people other than himself.Last edited by The Feral Slasher; 12-21-2021, 08:57 PM.---------------------------------------------
Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
---------------------------------------------
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
George Orwell, 1984
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