Corona Virus

[GwynnInTheHall]

And again, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But you have a tendency to act like your opinion carries some sort of moral superiority.

Besides, even from a moral standpoint, age makes sense not just because of expectancy, but also because the older patient got to spend more years alive than the younger one. Why would you want a younger person to die? See, there are no easy choices in these situations and I'm glad I don't have to make these types of decisions. I'm even gladder you don't.

If I'm advocating for life over possession it absolutely carried moral superiority.

If I'm advocating that we not take consigning people to die lightly and ask more of those making those decisions, then again I do have moral superiority.

It's not that I give a shit about that--I just want the right thing to be done and I am the only one that can make that choice for myself.

I'm not killing your Parent/Grandparent to keep myself, my wife or my kid alive.

You might choose otherwise.

I won't.

[Ken]

I've spoken to quite a few Doctors myself over the past 6 weeks, they aren't sharing that with me if that's the case. So I again, can't imagine this can't be handled with better prep.

Confused about how doctors not sharing something with you gives you information.

Every second is critical in situations like they are having in Italy where there are not enough respirators. Is that really a question? People can't breathe. They need respirators. There are not enough. Let's put you in that situation and then think again about whether every second counts?

Age is variant, there are young 65 year old folks and old 45 year old folks so the actual number is irrelevant. So no I don't agree that seconds are all we have nor that age is the biggest factor.

Anecdotal evidence doesn't change the fact that age is the biggest factor for viability though.

I may be wrong, but it's what I believe and that dictes how I feel about this.

But we aren't talking about how you feel, we are discussing the best approach.

[DMT]

I was being sarcastic about Rules.

The argument here is that age and the age of 65 is an arbitrary line in the sand, this is exemplified by the fact the Rich, regardless of age are getting tested and have access to whatever they need to survive, if the rule was hard and fast and a actually quantifiable thing--they wouldn't. Nor would your Doctor get the Ventilator over the 45 year old slacker.

the 65 age thing is absolutely arbitrary and IMO a terrible choice of justification if one HAS to be consigned to die.

There are no good choices in triage, that's the problem. If we took a poll, I guarantee you that the overwhelming majority would consider age a better factor to make these awful choices, than place in line. And I'm in agreement that age 65 is terribly arbitrary, but place in line is even more arbitrary. In fact, one could make an argument that those who were hospitalized first were not as careful and thus less deserving of those who caught it later. It's not a good argument, but neither is "1st come 1st serve" when the outcome is death.

[The Feral Slasher]

6 trillion dollars ?

[GwynnInTheHall]

You are whiffing on my tone if you think I 'd anything to you. But since we are for some reason calling out personal info, why Brian Doig are we doing that?

Weird post, very very weird.



Confused about how doctors not sharing something with you gives you information.

Every second is critical in situations like they are having in Italy where there are not enough respirators. Is that really a question? People can't breathe. They need respirators. There are not enough. Let's put you in that situation and then think again about whether every second counts?



Anecdotal evidence doesn't change the fact that age is the biggest factor for viability though.




But we aren't talking about how you feel, we are discussing the best approach.

XXXX-d is my acknowledgement of the manner in which you disect a post and debate it line by line, that's all.

[Ken]

-d is my acknowledgement of the manner in which you disect a post and debate it line by line, that's all.

Not dissecting, just replying in-line so it's clear what I'm replying to. That's what I'm used to at work - we have long conversations back and forth with several topics going on at once and the only way it works is by using inline comments. It clarifies what each statement is replying to, that's all.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Not dissecting, just replying in-line so it's clear what I'm replying to. That's what I'm used to at work - we have long conversations back and forth with several topics going on at once and the only way it works is by using inline comments. It clarifies what each statement is replying to, that's all.

I have no doubt, It is unique to you on this forum. No harm intended, corrections have been made.

[Ken]

It's not a good argument, but neither is "1st come 1st serve" when the outcome is death.

That old trolly scenario from ethics class is hitting way too close to home these days.

[cardboardbox]

As long as the idiot spring breakers are last in line for any medical attention, I guess I'm ok with doctors making decisions they're paid to make. Glad I'm not making those decisions. I'd probably end up hiding in a closet.

[nullnor]

Italian priest dies of coronavirus after giving respirator to younger patient https://nypost.com/2020/03/24/italia...ounger-patient

An Italian priest infected with coronavirus gave up a respirator his parishioners bought for him to a younger patient — and then died from the deadly bug, according to reports... No details were given on the patient who received the respirator at Berardelli’s request.

i don't want to weigh in on this but i wanted to point out the connection to the discussion. or the relevant news or to what is happening. wanted people to be aware of everything.

ok i'll weigh in. people are selfish. perhaps someone with faith or a belief in something greater would decide to make this kind of decision. perhaps when i am as old i wouldn't want to keep sucking a system dry and endorse things like global warming and universal healthcare for me but no-one else and vote on things that benefit myself while hurting the young. and would choose to go out the same way. who knows what kind of life the young person you saved will eventually live. maybe your generosity will help steer fate to a prosperous path in a chaotic world.

[Mithrandir]

Italian priest dies of coronavirus after giving respirator to younger patient https://nypost.com/2020/03/24/italia...ounger-patient i don't want to weigh in on this but i wanted to point out the connection to the discussion. or the relevant news or to what is happening. wanted people to be aware of everything.

ok i'll weigh in. people are selfish. perhaps someone with faith or a belief in something greater would decide to make this kind of decision. perhaps when i am as old i wouldn't want to keep sucking a system dry and endorse things like global warming and universal healthcare for me but no-one else and vote on things that benefit myself while hurting the young. and would choose to go out the same way. who knows what kind of life the young person you saved will eventually live. maybe your generosity will help steer fate to a prosperous path in a chaotic world.

What if the life saved becomes a serial killer or rapist?

[DMT]

What if the life saved becomes a serial killer or rapist?

Why would you say that? More than likely the recipient is forever thankful and becomes a better person.

[Sour Masher]

What if the life saved becomes a serial killer or rapist?

Or worse yet, a streaky baseball player!

[nullnor]

What if the life saved becomes a serial killer or rapist?

then you teach other people about your sacrifice and how it didn't work out. and you save someone else.
it becomes like the 1996 movie Dragonheart.

[Sour Masher]

More on Gates' take on this. He is very tactful, so doesn't name Trump, but he is basically saying we could have done more in February, now it is too late for this to go easy on us, but we need to take the economic hit and shut down aggressively now. The faster and harder we do it, the better off we will come out of it. Basically, what we have seen and talked about before. An extreme shut down for 6-10 weeks. Sad that it won't happen this way, but as I keep saying, I don't think our current leadership has the patience for it, and since I also think a lot of people would call for the shutdown to end early, I think he will have the support to end this early. He is talking about Easter now. That won't get this thing done. In fact, it will almost be pointless, so we cost jobs and hurt the economy for basically nothing in terms of flattening the curve.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/hea...Dci?li=BBnb4R7