Corona Virus

[revo]

CDC says they tested the Diamond Princess cruise ship and discovered the virus can live up to 17 days on certain materials, way longer than they expected.

Also, 90% of the world's cases are from countries whose temperatures are between 34-64 degrees right now.

[chancellor]

Also, 90% of the world's cases are from countries whose temperatures are between 34-64 degrees right now.

Knew I should have stayed in Florida.

[The Feral Slasher]

CDC says they tested the Diamond Princess cruise ship and discovered the virus can live up to 17 days on certain materials, way longer than they expected.

Also, 90% of the world's cases are from countries whose temperatures are between 34-64 degrees right now.

I suspect 90% or more of the tests have been in the same region. But who knows

[umjewman]

I suspect 90% or more of the tests have been in the same region. But who knows

The President does. You wouldn’t believe all the stuff he knows - people tell him how much he knows and it’s astounding.

[The Feral Slasher]

The President does. You wouldn’t believe all the stuff he knows - people tell him how much he knows and it’s astounding.

He is great at knowing....the best knower.

[rhd]

Heartbreaking video from Spain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXBkjOXiMvw

We can only hope this doesn't happen here.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Heartbreaking video from Spain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXBkjOXiMvw

We can only hope this doesn't happen here.

Tragic.

My question is this--why should Age factor into any decisions like this? I get that rate of survival is lower the older you get, but shouldn't this be voluntary? What's the damn point of working your whole life to enjoy the final years in the manner you've worked so hard to do if you can arbitrarily be deprived of that life by these kinds of decisions?

Again, I understand if someone is TERMINAL and is going to die anyway, but if they're not--this is awful.


Not enough supplies, commandeer production plants. materials and MAKE them. Take over vacant buildings or build new ones--If china can do it--so can other countries.

There's no excuse except that those in power (in any country) were unprepared and now paralyzed by whatever forces into inaction.

This doesn't HAVE to be this bad.

My heart goes out to those being sacrificed and their families as well as the obviously affected healthcare workers tasked to carry out these choices.

[Sour Masher]

Tragic.

My question is this--why should Age factor into any decisions like this? I get that rate of survival is lower the older you get, but shouldn't this be voluntary? What's the damn point of working your whole life to enjoy the final years in the manner you've worked so hard to do if you can arbitrarily be deprived of that life by these kinds of decisions?

Again, I understand if someone is TERMINAL and is going to die anyway, but if they're not--this is awful.

Yes, it is awful, everyone would agree with that. But until supply lines can be strengthened so we have more equipment to help save lives, what method of choosing would you recommend? There will not be enough volunteers to die, and a volunteer set up would just favor the selfish/self-motivated. These are impossible choices, but if you have one ventilator and five patients that need it, four people are likely to die. How would you pick which four? Draw straws? Random lottery? Using remaining life expectancy as a factor to consider may be unfair and seem cold, but it makes as much or more sense as anything else given the horrible situation we have allowed ourselves to be in.

[Ken]

Tragic.

Agree, wow. Stunning.

My question is this--why should Age factor into any decisions like this? I get that rate of survival is lower the older you get, but shouldn't this be voluntary?

Hmm, I don't think anyone's going to volunteer unfortunately.

In reality this is a triage system. The hospital only has so many resources so it has to focus those resources where they can help the most. If they have determined that the respirator is helping the younger patients more than the older patients then that's how they are conducting the triage.

It is very morbid, but that's really the point being made in the video - eventually if you don't stop the spread it comes to the point where those type of decisions have to be made. And there's not time to argue about how or why or who, hard decisions like this have to be made.

[rhd]

Tragic.

My question is this--why should Age factor into any decisions like this? I get that rate of survival is lower the older you get, but shouldn't this be voluntary? What's the damn point of working your whole life to enjoy the final years in the manner you've worked so hard to do if you can arbitrarily be deprived of that life by these kinds of decisions?

Again, I understand if someone is TERMINAL and is going to die anyway, but if they're not--this is awful.


Not enough supplies, commandeer production plants. materials and MAKE them. Take over vacant buildings or build new ones--If china can do it--so can other countries.

There's no excuse except that those in power (in any country) were unprepared and now paralyzed by whatever forces into inaction.

This doesn't HAVE to be this bad.

My heart goes out to those being sacrificed and their families as well as the obviously affected healthcare workers tasked to carry out these choices.

EVen tho I indicated hope that this doesn't happen here, I fear that it will. I don't know how many respirators/ventilators are available in the country, nor do I know the feasibility or willingness for them to be made available in the places they are needed (like NYC, e.g.) but we will in all likelihood see millions of CV cases here by the end of April, not to mention beyond then. If even 1%-2% of those cases need respirators, that will mean hundreds of thousands of respirators are needed. Do we have that many? I fear we do not.

[Sour Masher]

Gates recently said in a Q and A he thinks a 6-10 week period of isolation is what it would take to get the curve flattened in the US. Trump is antsy already, so I don't think that will happen at the federal level. I expect my state, being by far the hardest hit so far, to keep things locked down longer than whatever the Federal mandate ends up being. As KS has pointed out, most cases are happening in clusters. The downstate NY ones are the biggest right now. It seems like if we cold direct federal resources to those clusters right now, that would be an effective use of resources.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Yes, it is awful, everyone would agree with that. But until supply lines can be strengthened so we have more equipment to help save lives, what method of choosing would you recommend? There will not be enough volunteers to die, and a volunteer set up would just favor the selfish/self-motivated. These are impossible choices, but if you have one ventilator and five patients that need it, four people are likely to die. How would you pick which four? Draw straws? Random lottery? Using remaining life expectancy as a factor to consider may be unfair and seem cold, but it makes as much or more sense as anything else given the horrible situation we have allowed ourselves to be in.

I'm not talking about using that method going forward--but they are TAKING ventilators OFF existing patients simply because of age. Fate is fickle, if you were there first, you get the treatment. THAT isn't an choice someone is making FOR you.

again, WHAT is Spain doing to fix the shortage? China just shut everything down, did what needed to be done and it took 3 months to get past the worst of it. We're woefully late to the Game in the USA, but if China can build a hospital in 3 days so can wee, we also can work around the clock to retrofit production lines to make needed items. BUT, will we? I don't see it happening at a Federal level do you?

[GwynnInTheHall]

Agree, wow. Stunning.



Hmm, I don't think anyone's going to volunteer unfortunately.

In reality this is a triage system. The hospital only has so many resources so it has to focus those resources where they can help the most. If they have determined that the respirator is helping the younger patients more than the older patients then that's how they are conducting the triage.

It is very morbid, but that's really the point being made in the video - eventually if you don't stop the spread it comes to the point where those type of decisions have to be made. And there's not time to argue about how or why or who, hard decisions like this have to be made.

I understand, but I would never want to deprive you of your parent simply because they were over 65 and the gave the ventilator to me because I'm not. I think you'd feel the same should you be put in that position.

[DMT]

I understand, but I would never want to deprive you of your parent simply because they were over 65 and the gave the ventilator to me because I'm not. I think you'd feel the same should you be put in that position.

Dude, there is a team of doctors that make these decisions. Just because you don't think it's right, doesn't make it wrong.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Dude, there is a team of doctors that make these decisions. Just because you don't think it's right, doesn't make it wrong.

I don't care who makes the decisions. Every 65 year old is not the same--it's an arbitrary line in the sand. Right is right and wrong is wrong. No matter who's making the choices. That's something many people have forgotten.