Corona Virus

[Ken]

I defer to you on data stuff, so I take no offensive if you punch holes in this logic. But here goes:

1. I am saying that someone who is tested multiple times that is asymptomatic skews the data. Does it not? If someone who does not have covid and does not think they have covid gets tested several times, that is several negatives for one person. Yes, eventually, assuming they get sick at the same rate as others, they will test positive, but that might be after dozens of negatives.

In order to skew the data, these individuals would need to have some external factor that makes them LESS likely than the general population to be positive for COVID. I'm operating under the assumption that these mandated individuals would test out at exactly the population rate. Are you thinking they would be less likely than a randomly chosen individual? If so, why?

2. I am also saying that there are people who are symptomatic who refuse testing, because they want too keep working don't trust testing, etc. That behavior is also different from what you are assuming, right?

Seems unlikely to move the needle - I'm sure this population exists, but they'd actually have to be correct to make a difference. The amount of people who are smart enough to correctly diagnose themselves but dumb enough to put a job over their own life, and careless enough to intentionally expose others seems trivial.

[Ken]

My thinking is that there is a difference between infections per test and infections per person. We could theoretically get to a point of 100% infection and 10% of tests being positive, if everyone who is infected gets tests 10 times and each has only 1 positive test.

that's fair, the time component does come into play eventually. I wonder what the average test count is among those who have been tested. I'd guess it's far less than 2, but maybe I'm wrong.

[Sour Masher]

that's fair, the time component does come into play eventually. I wonder what the average test count is among those who have been tested. I'd guess it's far less than 2, but maybe I'm wrong.

Yeah, I don't know either. Health care workers were rightly prioritized over others early an often in testing, so it might be higher. But with as many tests as we have done now, I would not be surprised it the number is far less than 2, as you say. To be over, it would probably have to be the case that not only health care workers are being tested frequently, but other populations in significant numbers, like folks in nursing homes and other at risk populations. It will also likely have to be the case that a decent number of overly cautious folks with means were getting tested multiple times as well. I think it is possible, but I don't think anyone has been tracking how many tests have been from repeat costumers.

[frae]

I don't know if you guys have talked about this yet so I am genuinely curious. Do you want your children or grandchildren going back to school if it is in person school? I just filled out the survey my school district sent the staff. I really don't want to sound selfish, but I don't see how it is safe for me to be in a building with 1400 kids a day. I know people want their kids to go back and hell I am as tired as anyone of explaining to my 9 and 11 year old why they had to learn from home in the spring and why they might not get to go back in the fall, but how do we make this staff for the kids, the staff, and the extended families of both?

I hate teaching online and I know the learning experience is not as good, but I don't want to feel like I am going somewhere unsafe every day for 180 plus days. My moms immune system is weakened and if I go back to teach I feel like I need to avoid seeing her until we have a vaccine which just sucks.

Anyway, I know this is an issue that directly impacts a lot of people and they are passionate about it, just reach any community facebook group and I don't have the answers, but no one else does either and that makes me feel like we should error on the side of caution.

[umjewman]

I don't know if you guys have talked about this yet so I am genuinely curious. Do you want your children or grandchildren going back to school if it is in person school? I just filled out the survey my school district sent the staff. I really don't want to sound selfish, but I don't see how it is safe for me to be in a building with 1400 kids a day. I know people want their kids to go back and hell I am as tired as anyone of explaining to my 9 and 11 year old why they had to learn from home in the spring and why they might not get to go back in the fall, but how do we make this staff for the kids, the staff, and the extended families of both?

I hate teaching online and I know the learning experience is not as good, but I don't want to feel like I am going somewhere unsafe every day for 180 plus days. My moms immune system is weakened and if I go back to teach I feel like I need to avoid seeing her until we have a vaccine which just sucks.

Anyway, I know this is an issue that directly impacts a lot of people and they are passionate about it, just reach any community facebook group and I don't have the answers, but no one else does either and that makes me feel like we should error on the side of caution.

Well, yes I want them to be back in school but that is in a vacuum. I have sincere doubts on how it can be done safely, but I’m willing to listen to the plan my district sets forth and then we will decide. A neighboring district just released a plan that was elementary school kids in school every day for 2.5 hours a day, no lunch or recess and social distancing in effect. They were going to do a morning and afternoon session I think to minimize traffic.

So much unknown at this point. We were satisfied with the plan set forth by my son’s pre-K and will send him in September.

[Sour Masher]

I don't know if you guys have talked about this yet so I am genuinely curious. Do you want your children or grandchildren going back to school if it is in person school? I just filled out the survey my school district sent the staff. I really don't want to sound selfish, but I don't see how it is safe for me to be in a building with 1400 kids a day. I know people want their kids to go back and hell I am as tired as anyone of explaining to my 9 and 11 year old why they had to learn from home in the spring and why they might not get to go back in the fall, but how do we make this staff for the kids, the staff, and the extended families of both?

I hate teaching online and I know the learning experience is not as good, but I don't want to feel like I am going somewhere unsafe every day for 180 plus days. My moms immune system is weakened and if I go back to teach I feel like I need to avoid seeing her until we have a vaccine which just sucks.

Anyway, I know this is an issue that directly impacts a lot of people and they are passionate about it, just reach any community facebook group and I don't have the answers, but no one else does either and that makes me feel like we should error on the side of caution.

I do, if it is done right, for my pre-K kid and my soon to be 1st grader, but I fear it won't be done right in many places. I'm frustrated by the lack of information we have gotten so far in our district, and we are pretty plugged in, because my wife talks with superintendents all the time. They still do not know the plan. There have been guidelines set up that make sense to me, but they would require money and resources that I am not seeing. It is incredibly disappointing, because I think kids, most especially young kids, who also happen to be the least susceptible to getting, spreading, and developing the most severe symptoms need to be in school in some capacity, even if it is half days like umjewman's district, or alternating days.

I hear you in terms of your safety too. My wife and I teach at the college level, and luckily, our university has put forth a plan I think is thoughtful and relatively safe. Many courses will be fully online. Some will be in-person. Many will be a hybrid. In all cases, in-person classes will be in larger rooms where social distancing is more practical. Everyone was provided with masks and sanitizer. Public spaces are shut down to avoid larger gatherings to eat and socialize. Flexibility of choice was given to faculty, and anyone with a medical need or even concern was afforded the opportunity to teach online. Those that made that choice did not feel pressure to teach in-person. In fact, their choice was the only way those teaching in person could do so. The plan makes sense to me. Some classes need to be in-person, and freshmen classes were prioritizes for in-person as well. I'd like to see planning like ours in k-12, but we have not seen it yet. To me, elementary school should be prioritized, both because young kids need in-person the most and they are the least vulnerable to the disease, and the least likely to spread it to teachers (kids under 10 are 1/3 as good at spreading covid as kids over 10 and adults).

[frae]

Yeah unfortunately I am at the high school so kids 14-18 mostly for me. I also teach video in a classroom that is not very big I don't see any way that I can have my typical 20 kids in there. I don't know, I just don't see any way I am going to feel comfortable in that building this year.

[Sour Masher]

Yeah unfortunately I am at the high school so kids 14-18 mostly for me. I also teach video in a classroom that is not very big I don't see any way that I can have my typical 20 kids in there. I don't know, I just don't see any way I am going to feel comfortable in that building this year.

Would you feel comfortable with 10, if they did every other day live? Is there any other space that can be used for that class? That is part of the problem. Our society is throwing 100s of billions at this, but not going all out to make schools work better. It would be a relative small thing to try to make a bigger space work for you, I would think.

Another huge factor is where are the numbers at any given time in your area. I expect plans for in-person will be disrupted at the local level if/when numbers go up. It is frustrating, I know, because you are being told to plan for everything. Much more prep and uncertainty abounds. I do think some in-person is worth trying for, especially for younger kids, but definitely not in areas in full blown outbreak mode, like Florida, Texas, and Cali right now, or what NY was when we shut down in the Spring. But my county, at the moment, has maintained between 75-150 active cases (reported cases, anyway) with a total population of 200k since the beginning of this thing. If numbers can be maintained in an area in that range--under 1/10th of 1%, let's say, I think it is worth the risk, at least until numbers climb.

This is all selfish talk for me, because I see how much my young boys benefit from in-person education and how much they lose not having it. But that aside, I do think all online is more viable for older kids and less viable for the younger ones.

[swampdragon]

I think that many parents have a vision that school will be like it was previous year if we do learning in school days - I look at it like everyone will be in individual bubbles and teachers are not getting close to the kids the kids at all - it is sad

also in our district the middle schoolers are still going to eat in the cafeteria - the long bench tables with each kid facing the same direction 6 feet apart - it sounds so lifeless - usually they sit as crammed as possible next to and across from each other

online - I would be willing to have a half hour break of zoom games during lunch so they can socialize that way at least

https://gen.medium.com/i-spent-three-weeks-in-school-with-kids-under-covid-19-21b78c1a9339

[Gregg]

My 9 year old Grandson will be attending public school starting in August. I just found out this morning what that looks like.

He will attend in classroom Monday and Tuesdays. He will work on line Wed.-Thursday. The classroom size will be 12 students.

On Thursday and Friday 12 other students will be doing their in class studies. Wednesday there is no school for anyone. They will use that time for deep cleaning and disinfecting the school.

Masks will be mandatory all day. Desks will be 6 feet apart and facing the same way.

After hearing these precautions I think it is a pretty good plan.

[Sour Masher]

My 9 year old Grandson will be attending public school starting in August. I just found out this morning what that looks like.

He will attend in classroom Monday and Tuesdays. He will work on line Wed.-Thursday. The classroom size will be 12 students.

On Thursday and Friday 12 other students will be doing their in class studies. Wednesday there is no school for anyone. They will use that time for deep cleaning and disinfecting the school.

Masks will be mandatory all day. Desks will be 6 feet apart and facing the same way.

After hearing these precautions I think it is a pretty good plan.

Mind sharing what state this is?

[DMT]

My 9 year old Grandson will be attending public school starting in August. I just found out this morning what that looks like.

He will attend in classroom Monday and Tuesdays. He will work on line Wed.-Thursday. The classroom size will be 12 students.

On Thursday and Friday 12 other students will be doing their in class studies. Wednesday there is no school for anyone. They will use that time for deep cleaning and disinfecting the school.

Masks will be mandatory all day. Desks will be 6 feet apart and facing the same way.

After hearing these precautions I think it is a pretty good plan.

That sounds like a good plan, hopefully good results follow.

[Gregg]

Mind sharing what state this is?

Lake County Illinois.

About an hour north and slightly west of Chicago.

[Sour Masher]

Lake County Illinois.

About an hour north and slightly west of Chicago.

Thanks. It seems similar alternative schedule plans are being unveiled all over. I think they are reasonable too, in places not in full outbreak mode. The move toward lessening risk, but get the kids some in-person interaction.

[The Feral Slasher]

Thanks. It seems similar alternative schedule plans are being unveiled all over. I think they are reasonable too, in places not in full outbreak mode. The move toward lessening risk, but get the kids some in-person interaction.

I really struggle with what is reasonable. Most of the places that were not in full outbreak mode either didn't shut down or opened up -- and now they are in full outbreak. if there is a way to open as cautiously as possible i think that is good. What really worries me is people that cant work remote who have kids in school. I wish our policy prioritized helping them instead of bailing out corporations and propping up the stock market.