Corona Virus

[Ken]

And another conservative argument using Sweden seems to be failing, as only ~7% of the population has antibodies according to a recent test, in their quest for "herd immunity." In late April, Sweden's chief epidemiologist figured that 15%-20% had the antibody by then. Somewhere between 70%-90% of the population is needed for herd immunity, which I assume means that when a 2nd wave hits, they will face the same higher death rate and infection rate than their Scandinavian neighbors did.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/21/healt...ntl/index.html

The concept of herd immunity without a vaccine driving the immunity is foreign to me. Are there other viruses that have achieved herd immunity in humans without a vaccine driving the immunity?

[Kevin Seitzer]

And another conservative argument using Sweden seems to be failing, as only ~7% of the population has antibodies according to a recent test, in their quest for "herd immunity." In late April, Sweden's chief epidemiologist figured that 15%-20% had the antibody by then. Somewhere between 70%-90% of the population is needed for herd immunity, which I assume means that when a 2nd wave hits, they will face the same higher death rate and infection rate than their Scandinavian neighbors did.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/21/healt...ntl/index.html

Yeah, it seems like in exchange for roughly 10x the deaths compared to their Scandanavian neighbors, they got 10x the immunity, but they still have 10x to go from here to herd immunity. It doesn't seem like there's a free lunch.

[In the Corn]

And Trump panders to his base and declares churches essential. He threatens governors to open churches this weekend.

He will bring about a lot of death from this, and quite possibly a civil war.

[rhd]

It's kind of scary that every time I open this thread, RHD has his 3-day assessment! Time seems to be flying when you're quarantined!

I was reading an interesting article about the Worldometers site that suddenly everyone is using as their goto for Covid stats. Spain even directly quoted their site, and yet, no one ever really heard of this site prior to this crisis.

While they generally seem to be on the mark, many question certain parts of this mystery site:
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020...virus-mystery/

Starting 5/25, I'm going to do them every 7 days.

[nots]

And Trump panders to his base and declares churches essential. He threatens governors to open churches this weekend.

He will bring about a lot of death from this, and quite possibly a civil war.

How long do you recommend we wait?

[rhd]

Yeah, it seems like in exchange for roughly 10x the deaths compared to their Scandanavian neighbors, they got 10x the immunity, but they still have 10x to go from here to herd immunity. It doesn't seem like there's a free lunch.

Not only that, but their economy apparently has suffered almost as much as countries that did lockdown.

[In the Corn]

The activities in a church...singing, sitting close to each other, extended period of time all make the transmission greater. Couple that with the majority of church goers being older, this is a recipe for disaster.

I don't have a perfect date, and let's be honest, neither does Trump.

I miss my church and being in fellowship, but I can worship while watching online.

[nots]

The activities in a church...singing, sitting close to each other, extended period of time all make the transmission greater. Couple that with the majority of church goers being older, this is a recipe for disaster.

I don't have a perfect date, and let's be honest, neither does Trump.

I miss my church and being in fellowship, but I can worship while watching online.

You should have some guidelines in mind, right? Wait until the curve flattens, wait until there is a vaccine, wait until there are zero cases?

[In the Corn]

You should have some guidelines in mind, right? Wait until the curve flattens, wait until there is a vaccine, wait until there are zero cases?

Does Trump have some guidelines? My governor said churches could open with no more than 10 people. That's a guideline.

nots, you're trying to play me into a corner. I shared this on Facebook yesterday:

This may be an unpopular opinion, however, church is not four walls, it does not happen in pews, it does not have to be lead by a priest or pastor. Church is worship, study and fellowship.

Let's sing songs. Let's worship God in amazement of His creation. Let's listen to a message online. Let's study God's Word. Let's pray. Let's get together for coffee, lunch or a bonfire and have fellowship.

We can show the community through these actions that we love our neighbor and will wait until larger groups can gather. Let's be patient and kind.

I believe the church's response to this should be to say, "We know this is still an active pandemic. Yes, we value and love corporate worship, but we value and love our neighbor more. And to protect our neighbor, both those who are believers and those who are not, we choose to remain closed for corporate worship until it is safe. What safe means, at this point we don't know, but we know it isn't right now."

[GwynnInTheHall]

You should have some guidelines in mind, right? Wait until the curve flattens, wait until there is a vaccine, wait until there are zero cases?

Really? How about we wait until we know MORE about the virus, till the Epidemiologists, doctors and scientists currently s researching it tell us what we're dealing with and the best way to avoid unnecessary deaths--and there are NO acceptable casualties to save the economy--if it is too fragile to survive a lockdown to save lives (like mandatory blackouts during wartime or rationing or no baseball season etc., then it's fatally flawed to being with. Faith is important, but you can worship from home there is NO excuse for these people to put OTHERS in harms way simply because they feel they need to be in a church to be closer to their God.

If it's Ok in a week--great if it takes a year--so be it.

the way it's been handled on ALL sides has been pretty awful and people who wouldn't have died, will die because of that incompetence some already have.

Frankly--you shouldn't NEED a date, WAIT let the people doing the work recommend when to re-open and until then stay the f*ck at home and only go out to sustain--not entertain and when you're out--Mask up, social distance, sanitize and get back to your house as quickly as possible.

Anything less is irresponsible and completely inconsiderate of those in harms way.

other than that--Have a nice day.

[nots]

Does Trump have some guidelines? My governor said churches could open with no more than 10 people. That's a guideline.

nots, you're trying to play me into a corner. I shared this on Facebook yesterday:



I believe the church's response to this should be to say, "We know this is still an active pandemic. Yes, we value and love corporate worship, but we value and love our neighbor more. And to protect our neighbor, both those who are believers and those who are not, we choose to remain closed for corporate worship until it is safe. What safe means, at this point we don't know, but we know it isn't right now."

I appreciate you responding and I’m not trying to paint you into a corner. I am trying to get you ( not you specifically, but those who think we need to continue this) to commit to a definable goal. I don’t believe it’s right to ask people to continue to sacrifice economically, socially, spiritually and psychologically without knowing what the goal is. To me at least, the goal posts seem to be moving.

[nots]

Really? How about we wait until we know MORE about the virus, till the Epidemiologists, doctors and scientists currently s researching it tell us what we're dealing with and the best way to avoid unnecessary deaths--and there are NO acceptable casualties to save the economy--if it is too fragile to survive a lockdown to save lives (like mandatory blackouts during wartime or rationing or no baseball season etc., then it's fatally flawed to being with. Faith is important, but you can worship from home there is NO excuse for these people to put OTHERS in harms way simply because they feel they need to be in a church to be closer to their God.

If it's Ok in a week--great if it takes a year--so be it.

the way it's been handled on ALL sides has been pretty awful and people who wouldn't have died, will die because of that incompetence some already have.

Frankly--you shouldn't NEED a date, WAIT let the people doing the work recommend when to re-open and until then stay the f*ck at home and only go out to sustain--not entertain and when you're out--Mask up, social distance, sanitize and get back to your house as quickly as possible.

Anything less is irresponsible and completely inconsiderate of those in harms way.

other than that--Have a nice day.

If what’s ok in a week or in a year? A vaccine, zero cases, flattening the curve? What?

[In the Corn]

I appreciate you responding and I’m not trying to paint you into a corner. I am trying to get you ( not you specifically, but those who think we need to continue this) to commit to a definable goal. I don’t believe it’s right to ask people to continue to sacrifice economically, socially, spiritually and psychologically without knowing what the goal is. To me at least, the goal posts seem to be moving.

The problem is whichever side you're on, you view the opposite as sheep. I'm so tired of that.

Churches should be doing everything they can to limit the spread of the virus. They should be looking to see how the can support and show love to their neighbors. Instead of coming together as a big group, they should be saying, hey church, go over to Joe's Bar and Grill and order take out. Tell Joe your from X Church and we love him and hope he find success. Hey church, let's get a couple people to go help mow the lawn of the entire block of Jan's neighborhood. Tell them you're from X church and we love them, and hope they have a blessed day. and more acts of love and support and more acts of love and support.

[gcstomp]

https://www.whitehouse.gov/openingamerica/

CDC guidelines for opening up the country, and promoted by WH at end of april, but quickly abandoned when trump decied we better just open up. NO STATE had met guidelines, but all 50 states are opening up to some degree now. Critical point was 14 consecutive days of declining cases.

[gcstomp]

Lockdown delay cost lives. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/20/u...ng-deaths.html

In a fair world, trump woul be impeached for deliberately slow walking response and costing tens of thousands more lives than any other president would have, becuase this is 1st president unable to process daily briefs.

Point is not to just look back and say, gee, we screwed up. Point is we need to be able to read the data from scientists and react appropriately. We will have a 2nd wave, well worse than 1st, if history is any indicator per 1908 spanish flu https://www.history.com/news/spanish...ave-resurgence

If we as a country react as poorly, as slowly, as 1st wave, which seems inevitable, we will have more loss of life than 1st wave. And why do I say inevitable, with this president, we will react as poorly? trump has declared no matter what, we will not lock down for a second wave, even if it it multiples worse. https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...second-wave-of