Corona Virus

[GwynnInTheHall]

I think you nailed it, rhd. China has made the incriminating evidence disappear and this will be a show investigation.
The Australia/China relationship will be interesting to watch going forward to be sure.

Thing is, and I'm not justifying what China or WHO has been doing, the US is starting down a similar road of misrepresentation of COVID numbers. Currently both Florida and Georgia are trying to obfuscate the numbers and Trump is starting to do the same. I'm not going to assume the Why, but what's happening is pretty clear--anything that makes to numbers look bad (or worse as They're already bad) is being downplayed, lied about or ignored. Forget the moral issue here--the real issue is the threat it becomes to everyone's wellbeing.

I guess we're the shithole country now.

[Sour Masher]

Thing is, and I'm not justifying what China or WHO has been doing, the US is starting down a similar road of misrepresentation of COVID numbers. Currently both Florida and Georgia are trying to obfuscate the numbers and Trump is starting to do the same. I'm not going to assume the Why, but what's happening is pretty clear--anything that makes to numbers look bad (or worse as They're already bad) is being downplayed, lied about or ignored. Forget the moral issue here--the real issue is the threat it becomes to everyone's wellbeing.

I guess we're the shithole country now.

Yes, it is disturbing. Trump heaped praise on China early and often for their handling of COVID-19 before he decided to do a 180. But, of course, his 180 is really just another turn toward praising China--imitation is the highest form of flattery, after all. Just like China is pumping out propaganda to its people that this whole thing is the fault of the US, to deflect from their massive failings, Trump has gone from lauding their response to this to saying it is entirely their fault and he is perfect, trying to suppress valid data to fit his narrative. Scary stuff to see CCP tactics implemented here in the US by Chairman Trump.

[Teenwolf]

Thing is, and I'm not justifying what China or WHO has been doing, the US is starting down a similar road of misrepresentation of COVID numbers. Currently both Florida and Georgia are trying to obfuscate the numbers and Trump is starting to do the same. I'm not going to assume the Why, but what's happening is pretty clear--anything that makes to numbers look bad (or worse as They're already bad) is being downplayed, lied about or ignored. Forget the moral issue here--the real issue is the threat it becomes to everyone's wellbeing.

I guess we're the shithole country now.

I've been thinking exactly this. The US and other countries are obfuscating the true numbers, it's not just China. I've also been really close to starting a thread called "The US is the biggest shithole country", so I'm glad you saved my bacon pre-empting me!

It's amazing that in Canada, we see starkly different covid numbers in different provinces. BC is the California equivalent, run by lefties at every level. They just had ZERO new cases among 5 million people for the first time yesterday. Meanwhile, my province Ontario, run by the former crack smoking Toronto mayor's brother had prematurely crippled the supports for senior homes, health care, etc, and you see we got hit harder, and still getting 300 new cases a day. Austerity costs lives. Socialism is the only thing getting us through. My $4k over 2 months was a godsend.

[fuhrdog]

Iowa announces High School Baseball and Softball can start June 1st.

https://whotv.com/news/fan-limits-no-concessions-among-restrictions-proposed-for-iowa-high-school-sports-during-pandemic/

[rhd]

Thing is, and I'm not justifying what China or WHO has been doing, the US is starting down a similar road of misrepresentation of COVID numbers. Currently both Florida and Georgia are trying to obfuscate the numbers and Trump is starting to do the same. I'm not going to assume the Why, but what's happening is pretty clear--anything that makes to numbers look bad (or worse as They're already bad) is being downplayed, lied about or ignored. Forget the moral issue here--the real issue is the threat it becomes to everyone's wellbeing.

I guess we're the shithole country now.

The important difference is in China the gov't can exercise very tight control over the flow of information and in a democracy w free press, etc. like the US, this is virtually impossible for the gov't to do w/o the assistance of the media and other powerful entities. Yeah, Trump would love to have the power that Xi Jinping, Kim Jong Un and Putin do but no matter what he will never have this, short of some sort of military coup. In China, the major information outlets are effectively owned by the CCP and the internet is heavily censored. This makes it easy for the CCP to put out any narrative they want and the majority of China's people have little choice but to believe it because that's all they get. So, re: the misinformation and lack of transparency, it's a matter of degree and the difference of degree between China and the US is like night and day.

The very disturbing thing is that Western media and politicians too often seem to be buying the CCP narrative themselves. I'll tell you, I used to think media like CNN, MSNBC, etc. were relatively objective and that I generally could trust them. I don't anymore. I'm starting to believe that they're just as slanted as Fox News and that I need to be just as wary of the info they try to feed me. That's why I try to consume news from many different sources from around the world. It's about the only way you can get a comprehensive idea of what's really going on. It's hard to do because you have to sift thru a quagmire of different info try and distill as much truth as you can from everything. Most people either do not want to take the time to do this or they just don't have the time. Or, more likely, they just pick a media source that seems most in line w their way of thinking and don't listen to anything else. Such is the state of info and misinfo in modern society.

[nullnor]

not to change the subject coronavirus to china but, the one thing i am sure about is that it wasn't intentional. that's how far the rabbit hole goes. and it not actually a bad idea to try to come together and learn why this accident happened. what is happening there now, producing meat, will also happen to us in the future.

unless we produce it in a lab. we would solve two problems at once, green house gas release and biological virus adaptations. lab made meat. the unbearable burger. or the impossible burger.it's not like we have to liberate China. there are some places with 'camps'. and that should be thoroughly investigated. but the general population is happy. when you have overpopulation, it makes a country harder to maintain. you might have aspirations of expansion, but you have your own problems too.

we really should be moving from China to India. and we have. the US is fully integrated with everyone. so it's not like we weren't prepared for this sociologically. even if China decides to be dickheads. they aren't dumb. and can certainly help mankind leave the planet.

[rhd]

even if China decides to be dickheads. they aren't dumb. and can certainly help mankind leave the planet.

Yeah, maybe after they finish stealing everyone else's technology and resources.

[nullnor]

when you can build rockets to beat the escape velocity of your planet, you've earned the right to have an opinion.

[nullnor]

another article from a prestige's journal citing natural origin with no complete science to back it up. Animal Which Passed the Coronavirus from Bats to Humans Probably Wasn't a Pangolin, Study Suggests https://www.newsweek.com/animal-whic...ggests-1505005 newsweek had been a little interesting. https://journals.plos.org/plospathog...l.ppat.1008421

so they admit RaTG13 would take 40-70 years to recombine naturally. and say C-19 probably came from multiple natural sources, but than say there are no natural sources.

so what is going on with another journal leaning on natural causes with no proof. even if it's not money, you can't go around saying this happened unnaturally when you work with pathogens in controlled settings. ..i am ok with it as long as you are careful. not gain of function, but i understand the argument. but most people wouldn't handle the news good. so it's you against the world because no science doing this research will back you up due to self interest.

now they say with no intermediate host, if you wait long enough, humans will infect an animal and you won't be able to tell who infected who first. this is why you wait for an investigation. the longer you wait the harder to tell. it's not a retrovirus. so there will be no changes to DNA. if you found an animal with an earlier version of C-19 before mutations, you would claim it was the intermediate host. and you might need it to spread in that animal population. another reason to wait for investigations. the longer you wait the more difficult it will be. so you can fabricate an intermediate host naturally.

to be fair, it took a while to find the intermediate host for SARS and MERS. but we weren't as prepared to at the time. this time is different. we've been sampling alot of bat coronavirus in China since. it's much more likely they sampled the ACE2 and brought it back and inserted HIV furin cleavage on the spike protein and it escaped than natural recombination causes. but it's also possible it went directly from bat to human and recombined in us.

there is so many possibilities to this. the article contradicts itself. they say it's hard for bats to infect humans directly and that's a lie. bats fly everywhere and this is virus proved to be capable of infection vie digestive vectors. still there are a lot of problems. if you infect a pseudo intermediate host with this it probably burns itself out and can't be the intermediate host. but if you infect a bat with both the ACE2 and HIV furin cleavage and can prove it was the vector, the bats immune system will hold up and it will survive because bats are superman when it comes to immune systems.

China barely contributes any money to the WHO officially. i don't understand why the WHO would give them any special status. unless they see them as likely future vectors. and just wanted access. so if there is bribery at the WHO, it's not the whole organization but just a few powerful individuals. and they need to come out and explain why they acted as they did.

it's not impossible for the circumstances to naturally arrange the way they did, it's just not the simplest explanation. and without prompt investigations and research it makes it more difficult. we're losing time the longer we wait. we need to find how this virus came to be. everyone including China needs to be looking into this. you can't just say wait until it's over. by then it may never be over. even if they don't want inspectors because they are lying about infection numbers. the stakes are higher than that. unless it wasn't natural.

[nullnor]

1500 bat coronavirus in the wuhan level 4 bio-safety lab. which mostly came from natural samples after SARS. and now they say, we don't want to find the sample to this virus.

[madducks]

Costco customer in Colorado who refused to wear his mask gets his cart full of items taken away by the manager and is asked to leave. The customer recorded the incident to get sympathy but the exact opposite has occurred.

[rhd]

Another stats update as of 7:46 AM today. Last stats were from 5/19 at 7:46 AM, exactly 3 days ago:

- 1,621,333 cases in US, up from 1,550,539, a 4.6% increase, about the same as last time (4.5%). The increases of the last 6 days give a doubling rate of about every 47.25 days. At this rate, the US projects to hit 2,000,000 cases by about June 6. The new cases for this period were 70,794 compared to 66,252 for last time, for a ratio of 1.07, which is much higher than last time (0.87) but a comparison w the figure from 2 periods ago gives a more accurate picture. The new cases for 2 periods ago was 75,651 so a comparison w this period's new cases gives a rate of 0.94, which is much lower than last time (1.08). This rate seems to be hovering around 1.00 or slightly below.
- 96,363 deaths in US, up from 91,985, a 4.8% increase which is a larger increase than last time (3.9%). The increases of the last 6 days give a doubling rate of about every 49 days. At this rate, the US projects to hit 100,000 deaths by my next update on May 25. The US mortality rate is now 5.94%, about the same as last time (5.93%).
- 5,170.789 cases worldwide, up from 4,866,928, a 6.2% increase which is a larger increase than last time (5.7%). The new cases for this period were 263,861 compared to 263,021 for last time, for a ratio of 1.00 which is lower than last time (1.09) but a comparison w the figure from 2 periods ago gives a more accurate picture. The new cases for 2 periods ago was 242,216 so a comparison w this period's new cases gives a rate of 1.09, which is lower than last time (1.12). This rate seems to be going back up slightly.
- 334,979 deaths worldwide, up from 320,470, a 4.5% increase which is a larger increase than last time (3.7%). The world mortality rate is 6.48%, which is lower than last time (6.58%). Italy's mortality rate is 14.25%, up from 14.17%, Belgium's is 16.30%, down slightly from 16.33%, Spain's is 11.97%, about the same as last time (11.96%), France's is 15.52%, down from 15.69%, UK's is 14.36%, up from 14.11%, Germany's is 4.65%, up from 4.59%, Canada's is 7.43%, up from 7.36% and Mexico's is 10.93%.
- 218 countries/territories/etc. have confirmed cases w suspected cases in 2 others (North Korea, Turkmenistan). There are only 10 countries, all of which are South Pacific Island republics, that have neither reported nor have suspected cases: Kiribati, Marshall Is., Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, Samoa, Solomon Is., Tonga, Tuvalu, Vanuatu. The vast majority of countries have at least 1 death, w Central African Republic having the most cases w no reported deaths, 436.

Rates of increase were larger than last time. New cases rate were lower for both the US. Cases continue to surge in Russia, Brazil, Peru, Chile, Mexico, India and the Middle East.

[revo]

It's kind of scary that every time I open this thread, RHD has his 3-day assessment! Time seems to be flying when you're quarantined!

I was reading an interesting article about the Worldometers site that suddenly everyone is using as their goto for Covid stats. Spain even directly quoted their site, and yet, no one ever really heard of this site prior to this crisis.

While they generally seem to be on the mark, many question certain parts of this mystery site:

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/05/world/worldometer-coronavirus-mystery/

[Kevin Seitzer]

Hydroxychloroquine found to increase heart problems and mortality in a much larger study of COVID-19 patients. It's as significant an indicator for mortality as being a current smoker.

https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1263811764287725574

[revo]

And another conservative argument using Sweden seems to be failing, as only ~7% of the population has antibodies according to a recent test, in their quest for "herd immunity." In late April, Sweden's chief epidemiologist figured that 15%-20% had the antibody by then. Somewhere between 70%-90% of the population is needed for herd immunity, which I assume means that when a 2nd wave hits, they will face the same higher death rate and infection rate (500% higher) than their Scandinavian neighbors did.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/21/health/sweden-herd-immunity-coronavirus-intl/index.html