Corona Virus

[Sour Masher]

I know the US is looking into this. I hope they are transparent about their findings. If this was released because of a lab accident, I think it must lead to a complete overhaul of safety procedures for all labs working with such things--we keep playing with fire and we are gonna take ourselves out sooner or later. However, based on the number of sources that side with it being unlikely vs the much smaller number who suggest it is likely, I'm leaning it was natural occurring for now. There are over 4 million virus out there that can jump to our species. It was just a matter of time before a big one hit us.

The one theory that seems completely absurd is that China released it on purpose. No way they'd do that given how much it has devastated them and the world economy. Almost as implausible is that this was developed as a weapon against the US and somehow got out. That makes very little sense as well. I have seen no credible theory that would explain either of these claims. If this is man-made, it was made for another purpose and China is covering up their incompetence.

[cardboardbox]

The one theory that seems completely absurd is that China released it on purpose. No way they'd do that given how much it has devastated them and the world economy. Almost as implausible is that this was developed as a weapon against the US and somehow got out. That makes very little sense as well. I have seen no credible theory that would explain either of these claims. If this is man-made, it was made for another purpose and China is covering up their incompetence.

I've had that idea rattling around in my head for a couple months now. No it doesnt make much sense at all, but if there was a regime that might try something like that, China would be near or at the top of the list. For now I'll assume that theory is wrong and your last sentence is the most likely. Until we know more.

[rhd]

Yes, there are some authorities that say that the virus could happen naturally. I dont know whether there is more scientific evidence for it being naturally occurring than against.

But naturally-occurring or not, there is much evidence that it did not come from the Huanan seafood market in Wuhan where the Chinese originally said the virus originated. A Lancet journal article https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...183-5/fulltext was published on 1/24/20 finding that 14 of the 41 cases known on 1/2/20 (all taken to Jin Yin-tan Hospital in Wuhan) did not have any contact w the seafood market (the 1st author of this paper is the deputy director of Jin Yin-tan Hospital). This article identifies the 1st case as being from 12/1/19. Obviously, it did not give the name of this patient. On 1/29/20, the Lancet published an analysis of 99 CV-19 cases and only 49 of them were associated w the market. A New England Journal of Medicine article, also authored by medical expert(s) in China, also said that 45 cases from before 1/1/20 had no association w the market. Also, the 1st reported infection from the market was not until 12/10/19. Also note that altho this virus is thought to have originated in bats, no bats were sold at the Huanan seafood market.

There is circumstantial evidence that the virus came from the Wuhan lab(s) where research on coronaviruses was being conducted. A professor in southern China named Xiao Botao (or Xiaobo Tao) knew several researchers at the Wuhan lab(s) that had become infected w the virus (he published a thesis saying the virus was not naturally occurring) and at least one of those infected researchers, Huang Yanling, is suspected to be patient zero. She is now missing despite scientists' and professors' efforts to locate her and she is suspected by many to have died. It was also reported that the workers where she was cremated got infected by her, but I dont know exactly where this crematorium was or when she was cremated. The only evidence I've seen of an earlier place of origination than the seafood market is that re: the Wuhan lab(s). Yes, I've seen reports that the virus may have been transmitted to humans as early as Sept or Oct 2019 and that Huang Yanling is not patient zero but I know no details about that.

Shi Zhengli, one of the main researchers of the Wuhan lab(s) where several researchers are reported to have been infected w CV-19, published a paper in 2015 in the British journal Nature Medicine https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985 saying she created, from a bat virus, a synthetic SARS-type virus that had the "S-protein" connector necessary for direct transmission into humans. After the outbreak, China reported that the virus originated at the Huanan seafood market, even tho there was considerable evidence that it didnt. They then closed the market, sealed off all samples of the virus, prevented international experts from joining the investigation, issued an email to the Wuhan lab(s) employees prohibiting disclosure of anything re: the virus and silenced and even arrested medical personnel such as Li WenLiang to keep them from reporting what they knew about the outbreak. If it was naturally-occurring, why would they do that?

The evidence that the research going on in the Wuhan lab(s) was towards developing biological weapons could be described as quite speculative at this point and I only know of one source so far that has argued this. I can only hope that this wasnt true as this not only would be truly reprehensible but also directly against the Biological Weapons Convention which China has both signed and ratified. But I cant help but wonder what the purpose of Shi Zhengli's research was. Why would a virologist want to synthetically create a potentially deadly virus directly transmissible to humans? Of what benefit to mankind could this have?

I have never heard anyone claim that China released the virus on purpose, which would seemingly make no sense.

[fuhrdog]

Yesterday, Iowa had it's most cases in 1 day to date. Another Tyson food plant in Iowa is infected and they refuse to announce how many tested positive due to privacy concerns.
Public health information with anonymous data is considered private now?

[Gregg]

Yesterday, Iowa had it's most cases in 1 day to date. Another Tyson food plant in Iowa is infected and they refuse to announce how many tested positive due to privacy concerns.
Public health information with anonymous data is considered private now?

Is it Tyson or the Iowa Government that is refusing?

Either way it is not right. I am just curious.

[fuhrdog]

Tyson. The Iowa Auditor is asking for the info but they are refusing calling it a privacy issue.

http://kcci.com/article/tysons-perry-plant-suspends-production-for-cleaning-after-positive-covid-19-cases/32201249?src=app

[Sour Masher]

Yes, there are some authorities that say that the virus could happen naturally. I dont know whether there is more scientific evidence for it being naturally occurring than against.

But naturally-occurring or not, there is much evidence that it did not come from the Huanan seafood market in Wuhan where the Chinese originally said the virus originated. A Lancet journal article https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...183-5/fulltext was published on 1/24/20 finding that 14 of the 41 cases known on 1/2/20 (all taken to Jin Yin-tan Hospital in Wuhan) did not have any contact w the seafood market (the 1st author of this paper is the deputy director of Jin Yin-tan Hospital). This article identifies the 1st case as being from 12/1/19. Obviously, it did not give the name of this patient. On 1/29/20, the Lancet published an analysis of 99 CV-19 cases and only 49 of them were associated w the market. A New England Journal of Medicine article, also authored by medical expert(s) in China, also said that 45 cases from before 1/1/20 had no association w the market. Also, the 1st reported infection from the market was not until 12/10/19. Also note that altho this virus is thought to have originated in bats, no bats were sold at the Huanan seafood market.

There is circumstantial evidence that the virus came from the Wuhan lab(s) where research on coronaviruses was being conducted. A professor in southern China named Xiao Botao (or Xiaobo Tao) knew several researchers at the Wuhan lab(s) that had become infected w the virus (he published a thesis saying the virus was not naturally occurring) and at least one of those infected researchers, Huang Yanling, is suspected to be patient zero. She is now missing despite scientists' and professors' efforts to locate her and she is suspected by many to have died. It was also reported that the workers where she was cremated got infected by her, but I dont know exactly where this crematorium was or when she was cremated. The only evidence I've seen of an earlier place of origination than the seafood market is that re: the Wuhan lab(s). Yes, I've seen reports that the virus may have been transmitted to humans as early as Sept or Oct 2019 and that Huang Yanling is not patient zero but I know no details about that.

Shi Zhengli, one of the main researchers of the Wuhan lab(s) where several researchers are reported to have been infected w CV-19, published a paper in 2015 in the British journal Nature Medicine https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985 saying she created, from a bat virus, a synthetic SARS-type virus that had the "S-protein" connector necessary for direct transmission into humans. After the outbreak, China reported that the virus originated at the Huanan seafood market, even tho there was considerable evidence that it didnt. They then closed the market, sealed off all samples of the virus, prevented international experts from joining the investigation, issued an email to the Wuhan lab(s) employees prohibiting disclosure of anything re: the virus and silenced and even arrested medical personnel such as Li WenLiang to keep them from reporting what they knew about the outbreak. If it was naturally-occurring, why would they do that?

The evidence that the research going on in the Wuhan lab(s) was towards developing biological weapons could be described as quite speculative at this point and I only know of one source so far that has argued this. I can only hope that this wasnt true as this not only would be truly reprehensible but also directly against the Biological Weapons Convention which China has both signed and ratified. But I cant help but wonder what the purpose of Shi Zhengli's research was. Why would a virologist want to synthetically create a potentially deadly virus directly transmissible to humans? Of what benefit to mankind could this have?

I have never heard anyone claim that China released the virus on purpose, which would seemingly make no sense.

Yeah, it would be a really big coincidence if this thing just happened to occur in the market right by one of the only labs in the world that has the the technical capability to be playing around with something like this (but we are not even sure this thing started in Wuhan at this point). I don't discount that possibility at all. I marvel at the level of ineptness, if it were an accident, though, and I still cannot fathom why it would be done on purpose.

I have read claims that researchers would sell test animals to people as food to make extra money, which boggles the mind. I don't know what is true at this point, because so much of the "reporting" on it is speculative. It is possible this was man made, but it is also very possible it wasn't. I've watched several documentaries and read several articles that all but called this exact thing happening in wet markets years ago. In fact, the conspiracy theories about how Bill Gates did all this to somehow control the world come from the fact that he flat out called this happening, from a wet market. We were under-prepared for something scientists have been saying was a statistical likelihood for many years now. I hope we eventually learn the truth of how this happened, but more importantly, I hope we learn to be better prepared going forward. The next one could be worse.

[harmon]

In just about every one of Trump's daily performances he goes on about how the Obama administration left the supplies cupboard bare.

I guess he only had 3 years to correct that wrong, but golf and rallies must have got in the way.

[fuhrdog]

Tyson. The Iowa Auditor is asking for the info but they are refusing calling it a privacy issue.

http://kcci.com/article/tysons-perry...201249?src=app

And now a new meat packing plant 20 miles from me just reported 16 positive tests. That is also the town I buy groceries from weekly...awesome. All 16 came from workers that were being bused in from the same town a Tyson plant in Iowa has reported new cases. Iowa National Guard troops will help deliver testing equipment to packing plants, transport kits to labs and possibly help packing plants with cleaning.

[Sour Masher]

In just about every one of Trump's daily performances he goes on about how the Obama administration left the supplies cupboard bare.

I guess he only had 3 years to correct that wrong, but golf and rallies must have got in the way.

I know I've been starving ever since I bought my house and the previous owner left the kitchen totally devoid of food stocks! Can you believe it?! I didn't know what to do. Been great for weight loss, though.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Is there any evidence that this virus thrives in raw meat environments? If it indeed started in a wet market and these meat/poultry packing plants are getting hammered, I'd think there might be some correlation. But I'm too lazy to look it all up.

[fuhrdog]

Two-thirds of the 389 new cases announced by the state Sunday, by far a one-day record, were from National Beef and Tyson employees.

https://whotv.com/news/coronavirus/iowa-meat-plants-will-stay-open-despite-risks-governor-says/

[chancellor]

Is there any evidence that this virus thrives in raw meat environments? If it indeed started in a wet market and these meat/poultry packing plants are getting hammered, I'd think there might be some correlation. But I'm too lazy to look it all up.

None that I've seen. Having done work in food processing in a prior life, my suspicion is you and I would agree what should be done with managers of many of these plants, and it involves a SUV. You may still be correct in part, but I hold that many of these managers hire a labor pool such that they can manipulate to their whims - mostly involving showing up and working regardless of the condition you're in, or you'll get fired and replaced. So people show up and work, regardless of their health condition, in close quarters and less than sanitary conditions.

[TranaGreg]

None that I've seen. Having done work in food processing in a prior life, my suspicion is you and I would agree what should be done with managers of many of these plants, and it involves a SUV. You may still be correct in part, but I hold that many of these managers hire a labor pool such that they can manipulate to their whims - mostly involving showing up and working regardless of the condition you're in, or you'll get fired and replaced. So people show up and work, regardless of their health condition, in close quarters and less than sanitary conditions.

as someone who worked for a food wholesaler also in a previous life, all I can say is, yep, you nailed it, there's no secret to why this is playing out this way ...

[The Feral Slasher]

None that I've seen. Having done work in food processing in a prior life, my suspicion is you and I would agree what should be done with managers of many of these plants, and it involves a SUV. You may still be correct in part, but I hold that many of these managers hire a labor pool such that they can manipulate to their whims - mostly involving showing up and working regardless of the condition you're in, or you'll get fired and replaced. So people show up and work, regardless of their health condition, in close quarters and less than sanitary conditions.

Ain't that America....