living paycheck to paycheck

[Lurker765]

Lots of generalizations and theorical conversation in this thread, but no one really will to open a vein and share the plight of the middle-class working Joe and Jane.

More than glad to help.

As most here now, I've spent my career working in the nonprofit world. I've work for big organization ($80,000,000 budget) to small organizations (just over $250,000). My first real big boy job, I received a salary of $18,500 to start with. This was back in 1995. I got the biggest raise of my life the week after I got married when my boss saw that I was responsible to raise two stepkids. I moved up to $22,000. I had no benefits other than vacation and sick time. My wife carried our insurance at the time. I wasn't there long enough to (3 years) to get an employer match to a 503b retirement account. I was fired from that job in February and started a new job in April at a reduced salary.

At the same time my wife lost her job and until the last year and half has never worked in between...long story, and pretty painful to get into. Suffice it to say, my wife and I have lived paycheck to paycheck for the 22 years we have been married. My wife cashed in her small retirement ($10,000) in 2000 so we could make a down payment on a house. Stupid some might say, but it was the only way we could get into a house.

My wife and I have lived a pretty frugal lifestyle. I've been blessed beyond measure by the generosity of friends and family. I've had four cars given to me in my lifetime. We have had friends and family purchase a fridge, washer, dryer and dishwasher for us. My wife and I have only ever paid for three vehicles: two minivans and an economy electric car that we currently own. We have one car, currently. If we need to make a road trip, I need to borrow a car.

So where are we at today: I draw a salary of just over $50,000 (this brings me just above what I made prior to the economic crash). Out of that, I need to cover our health insurance, no dental, no matching retirement from the organization. Not chump change by any means. My wife makes about $8,000 annually. After paying our bills (mortgage, utilities, insurance, student loans, life insurance, health insurance, etc. no cable just Netflix and Hulu), we have about $650 to cover food, clothing, medications, entertainment, medical bills, etc.

My wife takes three prescriptions everyday that cost $50/month, so now we are at $600
I purchase groceries for the month between $300-$400, so now we are at $200-300
I get dog food for the two dogs at $30, so now we are at $170-270
I'm not going to lie, we eat out more than we should, but not extravagant, probably $150, so now we are at $20-120

I haven't purchased any clothing, car maintenance, emergency, etc. And I haven't paid a medical bill, which I really should. So yeah, there isn't a whole lot of meat on the bone.

At the start of 2017, my wfe stopped taking one of her medications becuase even after insurance it was $150 a month.

You ask me what becomes of the money my wife brings in? Well, last year, she had major dental work done $3500. She just went yesterday to for a teeth cleaning and exam $150.

She uses that money for emergencies and vacation...our fridge just crapped out. We purchase a $300 refurbished fridge. As for the vacations...they're to see our son, daughter-in-law, and most importantly, garnd-daughter in Boston. What do our vacation consist of? Mostly babysitting for the week. I'm not complaining, I'm just saying these are not extravagant getaways. The closest thing Mrs. ITC and I have had for a vacation that wasn't paid for by someone else is a night at the local casino that we had a coupon for a free night stay.

I tell people that many years ago when the Social Security Administration use to send out your benefits with the line, if nothing changes your monthly benefit is $XXX, I've said too myself, "I've lived on less."

I fully expect I will work until I die. I also fully believe that people (family and friends) are going to support Mrs. ITC and me in my older age.

So there is one story of Joe Middle Class, and why there is a lack of savings.

Critique away, if you so want.

thanks for the honesty and details. i appreciate the insight

[Judge Jude]

I appreciate every single post here.

this is a really constructive discussion overall - and I suspect all of us have been looking for that.

I've learned some things, and I figure a lot of us have. It's a tough topic, but I can picture some good coming out of it.

[TranaGreg]

And I get to move the youngest son from AZ to CO over the weekend. HE is moving in with his cousins and start working out there (where - your guess is as good as mine). So whether I can afford it or not - I am renting a vehicle and driving him out there and then driving back. 14 hours both ways. Leave tomorrow morning - stay with Sister-in-law for Saturday while moving him in. Then drive home Sunday....

Yeah - the things we do for our kids.........

for those of us with kids, does this impact how you raise them? I'm honestly conflicted - on the one hand instilling values of frugality and thinking about the future are values that they will have forever (as was pointed out above); but at the same time, I find this generation to be way more responsible than we were at that age, and I sometimes worry that they need to make sure to not let life slip by - some of my best memories are of crazy things that I did in my late teens early twenties. I guess it all comes back to balance.

[In the Corn]

for those of us with kids, does this impact how you raise them? I'm honestly conflicted - on the one hand instilling values of frugality and thinking about the future are values that they will have forever (as was pointed out above); but at the same time, I find this generation to be way more responsible than we were at that age, and I sometimes worry that they need to make sure to not let life slip by - some of my best memories are of crazy things that I did in my late teens early twenties. I guess it all comes back to balance.

I think this is a generation of extremes. I see in my kids both sides. My oldest is very responsible, but he also has the advantage of having dual incomes and the both make very good money and no student loan debt. My middle son is somewhat of a rebel. He has a decent job, but he lives his life more recklessly and he struggles. They are 35 and 31. My daughter who is 21 has an amazing job making great money for her age. She is pretty frugal, but she loves music, especially EDM, and is at a show almost every weekend and goes to 3-4 festivals every year.

[In the Corn]

Either, the RJ brethen are not living check to check like SM and myself, or we really don't want to have a discussion.

Trump's Commerce Secretary just is another tone deaf administrator in Trump's Cabinet. However, I have a hard time hearing from the Democrats, as I doubt many, if any of them, really have an understanding of what these furloughed employees are going through. Almost every person in Congress hasn't had to stand on the receiving line of a food shelf since they took office.

So RJ brethen if you're living paycheck to paycheck, how do you manage it, and if you're not a paycheck to paycheck household, what are you doing to help those in your community who are?

[TranaGreg]

So RJ brethen if you're living paycheck to paycheck, how do you manage it, and if you're not a paycheck to paycheck household, what are you doing to help those in your community who are?

To answer your question directly, we're not quite paycheck to paycheck, but as a two-income household if we missed more than two or three pays we'd have to lean on our line of credit. And as far as helping those in the community, we donate stuff & money to our local shelter - I really feel for the homeless, esp. in the winter.

[B-Fly]

So RJ brethen if you're living paycheck to paycheck, how do you manage it, and if you're not a paycheck to paycheck household, what are you doing to help those in your community who are?

We're not a paycheck to paycheck household, thankfully. We do contribute through the school district and the PTA and the 501(c)(3) educational foundation to support scholarships for field trips and other fee-based afterschool activities for free-and-reduced meal eligible students (about 17 percent of the district's enrollment) and other families that express financial need. We also contribute to the local food pantry (and have gone with the kids to volunteer, but not often enough), and other need-based local programs. While most of those need-based programs target folks at a level of poverty deeper than most middle class/working class paycheck-to-paycheck folks, the folks living paycheck-to-paycheck are (almost by definition) one missed paycheck away from possibly needing those programs and services.

[Sour Masher]

Either, the RJ brethen are not living check to check like SM and myself, or we really don't want to have a discussion.

Trump's Commerce Secretary just is another tone deaf administrator in Trump's Cabinet. However, I have a hard time hearing from the Democrats, as I doubt many, if any of them, really have an understanding of what these furloughed employees are going through. Almost every person in Congress hasn't had to stand on the receiving line of a food shelf since they took office.

So RJ brethen if you're living paycheck to paycheck, how do you manage it, and if you're not a paycheck to paycheck household, what are you doing to help those in your community who are?

As ITC says, I'm paycheck to paycheck right now with both kids in pre-school. We try to give ourselves a cushion by working extra. I teach online winter and summer classes online to help us meet our needs, and I run a summer program for the university for extra cash (my wife's stance on finances is never to spend less, but to make more, so we always choose to work extra when we can over belt tighten). Because of the extra work, how it works for us is that spend all of what we make 9 months out of the year, but make a lot extra in the summer, so the last three years, we had a nice cushion in August/September, but completely deplete that cushion and are starting to use credit cards by June/July, mostly due to travel costs. I see the extra work as paying for the two times a year we spend 10-14 days visiting our families. It would help a lot of we cut that to one trip a year, but ironically the thing that makes us broke right now, our kids, is exactly why we now visit family more and longer than before.

Our expectation/plan is to climb out of debt, build savings, and give more to others once these kids get into kindergarten. That is the thing for a lot of folks labeled irresponsible. Most people are in better or worse shape at different times in their life, and this shut down is catching some people at their worst.

As far as helping others, the only people I give actual money to are my mother and grandmother when they need it (both are constant reminders to me of what can happen when you don't plan for retirement or the unexpected; my mother has been on SSD for 20 years now, and my grandmother's care cost so much more than she ever dreamed it would). We donate all of our extra stuff--right now, mostly baby clothes and stuff as our youngest grows out of them--to goodwill and to those we know in need, like a grad student my wife works with that just had a boy. We also always do the fund raiser stuff at the JCC, and any time we see they need things for their classrooms, we donate what we have or often buy them to give.

[Sour Masher]

Speaking of furloughed employees, three of the people in my fantasy baseball league work for the port authority and are dealing with this. It is rough. One has had the good fortune to have a cushion, but the other two are having to use credit cards for everything. I don't think either are more irresponsible than the other. Just different life situations have made it tougher for them to prepare for something like this. One didn't see this coming and just sunk everything he had into a new house purchase right before all this went down. So to reiterate a point from my last post, I understand we should all prepare for the worst at all times, but I think most people, even responsible ones, have an ebb and flow in terms of cushion in their lives. This shut down is inevitably catching many works right when other parts of their life are hitting them hard too.

As a sports connection, one of these furloughed league mates has a kid you might draft one day. He is the very proud papa of Emilio Portes. All he wants is for his son to use his talent to get a good education, but the kid is a legit prospect. I keep teasing him that once he is eligible I'm gonna draft him in our minors and not trade him to him for less than a king's ransom.

Here is perfect game's scouting on him last year (he has since grown a bit, and should rate higher). His furloughed pop is most proud of the last line:

"Emilio Portes is a 2021 OF/3B, SS with a 5-9 160 lb. frame from Miami Gardens, FL who attends City Of Hialeah Education Academy. Medium, athletic frame with square shoulders and a longer build, projectable build with room to fill throughout moving forward. Ran a 7.00 60-yard dash. Primary outfielder, takes short and quick steps moving towards the ball, fields the ball out front and funnels into a full arm action, shows whip at release with arm stroke, shows carry when on top with present arm strength and worked around the bag. Fields the ball out front in the infield, shows balance and athleticism to the ball and moves well to either side, can continue to incorporate additional lower half into release, shows comfort throwing from multiple slots and gets on top of throws. Righthanded hitter, begins with a high hand set and back elbow at the plate; utilizes a leg lift trigger moving into contact. Full hand path with swing, can continue to shorten stroke, stays through the ball well and showed best contact when extended out front. Linear swing path, comfort working the middle and pull side parts of the field. Very good student."

[In the Corn]

Here is perfect game's scouting on him last year (he has since grown a bit, and should rate higher). His furloughed pop is most proud of the last line:

"Emilio Portes is a 2021 OF/3B, SS with a 5-9 160 lb. frame from Miami Gardens, FL who attends City Of Hialeah Education Academy. Medium, athletic frame with square shoulders and a longer build, projectable build with room to fill throughout moving forward. Ran a 7.00 60-yard dash. Primary outfielder, takes short and quick steps moving towards the ball, fields the ball out front and funnels into a full arm action, shows whip at release with arm stroke, shows carry when on top with present arm strength and worked around the bag. Fields the ball out front in the infield, shows balance and athleticism to the ball and moves well to either side, can continue to incorporate additional lower half into release, shows comfort throwing from multiple slots and gets on top of throws. Righthanded hitter, begins with a high hand set and back elbow at the plate; utilizes a leg lift trigger moving into contact. Full hand path with swing, can continue to shorten stroke, stays through the ball well and showed best contact when extended out front. Linear swing path, comfort working the middle and pull side parts of the field. Very good student."

Perhaps in the actual Sports Bar, we could create a thread where we would write a scouting report for ourselves from our playing days. That could be a lot of fun.

[Sour Masher]

Perhaps in the actual Sports Bar, we could create a thread where we would write a scouting report for ourselves from our playing days. That could be a lot of fun.

Ha, that would be fun to read. Mine would be blank, as I never played. But I know some of you guys had some glory days.

[Judge Jude]

if nothing else, I hope that those with longterm credit card debt hear a LOUD ticking sound every time the monthly bill arrives. you're paying double-digit interest (presumably) on everything you buy, basically.

maybe go at that number aggressively for a while; you'll be glad you did in the long run!

[DMT]

So RJ brethen if you're living paycheck to paycheck, how do you manage it, and if you're not a paycheck to paycheck household, what are you doing to help those in your community who are?

We are fortunate to not live paycheck to paycheck as my wife is a psychiatrist and makes very good money. She's also Indian and grew up very poor so she is quite frugal as well. We have 529s set up for both our daughters and contribute $500/month to each. We bought our 2nd house almost four years ago and we will have it paid off in eight more (we make two extra payments a year). It took a full year to sell our first house so having two mortgage payments sucked. She maxes out her retirement account to take full advantage of her employer match, we fund our IRAs each year and have a pretty good nest egg built up for our age (42). We also have a six-month emergency fund set aside. Of course we're still paying off our student loans but were lucky to lock in very low rates (mine are 1.125%). I have fortunately never had credit card debt in my life despite never receiving money from my parents after I moved out at age 18 (my college was funded through scholarships and loans). And back in college and graduate school it wasn't easy...I lived off mostly ramen noodles for a few years. I also did not have a car or cell phone for the years leading up to our round-the-world trip, which we took from July 2007-June 2008. We both decided we'd rather take a year of retirement while young and sans children.

As for helping others, we donate regularly to the local community food bank as well as the local community radio station KXCI which is a great conduit for highlighting community needs and resources (they stream everything, highly recommended kxci.org). We've also given all of our baby stuff (crib, strollers, clothes, books, toys) to friends or co-workers who are not as fortunate.

[nullnor]

the school i was going to go to for hvac closed and the owners retired at the last minute. i was barely able to get in another one at the last minute after it started the week before. hopefully after a year i will have some skills and move to Alaska. the whole experience i just went through really sucked and makes me want to be around people even less. but i like animals. even the cat up the street that visits puts a little peer pressure on me to want to stay. he was funny. he would come in and watch the contractors working like he was announcing himself and watching them. like he was on duty. also, i'm practicing to become a prepper.

the way i see this question is, ' how do i keep my selfish, self-centered, capitalist, consumerist, cocksucking, cunt lifestyle going after i retire.'

today when i was shopping for groceries like everyone else, i joked to myself that it was kind of funny that they give out reward cards for being this way. like they give out awards for consumption. heh

[gcstomp]

lol, null, I love the non pc alternate spectrum spin of your pov. I was once angry, young, and maybe crazy in my youth and could post something coming from that place that could top what you just said, but that person is gone. real life won, I am tired. i now appreciate the nap in sunroom with my dog resting on me more than anything.