Election 2020

[In the Corn]

I asked this before and got no response, but why did Obama and Hillary get a pass when they trotted out the "My views on the issue of evolved." It seems like TW, you don't think that flies with Biden, yet I think his track record in the recent years shows he has moved away from those position that you want an apology to be made.

[Sour Masher]

I noticed that every time Warren and Sanders attack Biden's record, they preface it by complimenting his character. He's a nice guy, we've known each other for a long time, I respect him... then BAM! Very civilized, and I like that they're emphasizing policy over personality. The entire field will be able to sideline Biden once his record is viewed with any scrutiny.

I mean, yeah, this is what you ideally want politicians to be doing. If a candidate is a scumbag, call him out as such, but if not, stick to policy. Voters need to know where candidates differ on key issues. So, yeah, what Sanders and Warren are calling out on Biden is not only fair, it is a public service. I hope the debates focus on such differences too.

[B-Fly]

Mike Pence’s voting record was/is minimally important?

To my Trump vs Clinton decision? Yes. How about to yours?

[B-Fly]

I asked this before and got no response, but why did Obama and Hillary get a pass when they trotted out the "My views on the issue of evolved." It seems like TW, you don't think that flies with Biden, yet I think his track record in the recent years shows he has moved away from those position that you want an apology to be made.

Obama only had to do that on one issue, really - gay marriage. And his evolution was relatively in sync with the evolution of the American people on the same issue. Hillary Clinton leaned in a bit on her record of foreign policy toughness, and it earned her some neocon votes while potentially losing her some progressive/libertarian ones, but it wasn't given a "pass", IMO.

[nots]

To my Trump vs Clinton decision? Yes. How about to yours?

Voted for Johnson. Pence had no impact. But I remember a lot of articles (and posts in here) that spilled a lot of angst that I guy with his voting record would be on the ticket.
I stand my position that Biden was vetted twice as VP, elected and re-elected without much pushback on his votes from 20-40 years ago. Seems like it isn’t going to have much impact with actual Democratic voters to bring those votes up now.

[Kevin Seitzer]

Voted for Johnson. Pence had no impact. But I remember a lot of articles (and posts in here) that spilled a lot of angst that I guy with his voting record would be on the ticket.
I stand my position that Biden was vetted twice as VO, elected and reflected without much pushback on his votes from 20-40 years ago. Seems like it isn’t going to have much impact with actual Democratic voters to bring those votes up now.

People will talk ad nauseum about anything. Sarah Palin was probably the most-dissected vice presidential pick in my memory. Yet how much did he she actually sway the presidential vote one way or another? I doubt it was very much.

Dick Cheney was obviously an exception to the "vice presidents don't matter" rule, but I don't think he swayed many votes in the election, either. People didn't know or expect that he would have as much influence as he did.

[B-Fly]

Voted for Johnson. Pence had no impact. But I remember a lot of articles (and posts in here) that spilled a lot of angst that I guy with his voting record would be on the ticket.
I stand my position that Biden was vetted twice as VO, elected and reflected without much pushback on his votes from 20-40 years ago. Seems like it isn’t going to have much impact with actual Democratic voters to bring those votes up now.

Maybe. But I think his "uninspiring" record from a liberal perspective is a big reason his earlier runs for president never gained much primary traction. He's obviously a very likeable guy, with generally good relationships on Capital Hill, which is a big part of the reason that Obama chose him as a running mate. He's better positioned now than he was in his prior runs, though, because as VP for eight years he was a well-liked, feel-good mainstay of a well-liked, feel-good administration, at least from the perspective of Democrats. And I think that's why his polling is so much better now than it ever was when he was running as the Senator from Delaware.

[In the Corn]

As an moderate independent, here's where I'm at right now:

Biden would get my vote.
Klobuchar wold get my vote.

Many I still need to hear more from to earn my vote (Booker, Gabbard, Harris, etc).

Those who have an uphill battle Sanders (a little too far out there for me), Warren (she has more ground to make up than Bernie), Buttigieg and Betos (not enough experience). In these cases, I would look at third party candidates.

[Teenwolf]

Voted for Johnson. Pence had no impact. But I remember a lot of articles (and posts in here) that spilled a lot of angst that I guy with his voting record would be on the ticket.
I stand my position that Biden was vetted twice as VP, elected and re-elected without much pushback on his votes from 20-40 years ago. Seems like it isn’t going to have much impact with actual Democratic voters to bring those votes up now.

I share your cynicism about the DCCC and Democratic establishment doing everything they can to support Biden, if he appears to be the centrist to break away from the pack. But I have more trust in the voters to figure it out and vote against the establishment pick than you do.

[Sour Masher]

As an moderate independent, here's where I'm at right now:

Biden would get my vote.
Klobuchar wold get my vote.

Many I still need to hear more from to earn my vote (Booker, Gabbard, Harris, etc).

Those who have an uphill battle Sanders (a little too far out there for me), Warren (she has more ground to make up than Bernie), Buttigieg and Betos (not enough experience). In these cases, I would look at third party candidates.

To folks concerned about Sanders and Warren being too far left, and that pushing them to 3rd party, I get the concerns, but I implore you to consider how unlikely it is that either would get everything they want. They will be pulling farther left than others, but that doesn't mean policies end up that far left. I hope that ends up swaying people to vote for the Dem candidate no matter who it is, because a 3rd party vote just makes it more likely Trump wins.

[B-Fly]

To folks concerned about Sanders and Warren being too far left, and that pushing them to 3rd party, I get the concerns, but I implore you to consider how unlikely it is that either would get everything they want. They will be pulling farther left than others, but that doesn't mean policies end up that far left. I hope that ends up swaying people to vote for the Dem candidate no matter who it is, because a 3rd party vote just makes it more likely Trump wins.

Agreed. I ultimately don't think there's any chance that the GOP will suffer enough losses to allow a progressive/left President to dictate policy without need for compromise/moderation. (Note that many of the 2018 Democratic House pickups were swing districts won by moderates, like Mikie Sherrill of the NJ 11th CD.

[In the Corn]

Agreed. I ultimately don't think there's any chance that the GOP will suffer enough losses to allow a progressive/left President to dictate policy without need for compromise/moderation. (Note that many of the 2018 Democratic House pickups were swing districts won by moderates, like Mikie Sherrill of the NJ 11th CD.

So your saying a winning strategy for Democrats is a moderate...hmm, who'd of thought...

[B-Fly]

So your saying a winning strategy for Democrats is a moderate...hmm, who'd of thought...

Not necessarily. I'm saying that the checks and balances of the US Government would temper the pace of change that even the most progressive president could reasonably hope to execute. The winning strategy for the Democrats is someone whose platform and personal qualities can turn out the right voters for him or her in the critical swing states. I think that either a progressive or a moderate could potentially do that if they focus on the right issues and concerns.

[Sour Masher]

Not necessarily. I'm saying that the checks and balances of the US Government would temper the pace of change that even the most progressive president could reasonably hope to execute. The winning strategy for the Democrats is someone whose platform and personal qualities can turn out the right voters for him or her in the critical swing states. I think that either a progressive or a moderate could potentially do that if they focus on the right issues and concerns.

That is a good point. How far left or center a candidate is may matter less, especially in key states and districts, than the issues they focus on and how they communicate with key voters on those issues in a way that appeals to them.

[Judge Jude]

sad to say, but I think 2016 taught us that only those Rust Belt states matter - the same ones that Michael Moore predicted would hand the election to Trump. the 2-time Obama voters who flipped to Trump.