Election 2020

[Judge Jude]

oh, I agree with him, too.

I'm just curious between the balance of Democrats' fondness for Obama and the passion of many on the progressive left who - to coin a phrase - want to "drain the swamp."

[Sour Masher]

oh, I agree with him, too.

I'm just curious between the balance of Democrats' fondness for Obama and the passion of many on the progressive left who - to coin a phrase - want to "drain the swamp."

Well, you already know the answer. Some here will agree with Obama, but we also thought Obama was a solid prez. There are those on the left who like those on the right, but for largely different reasons, think Obama was a bad president and likely see his call for continued compromise and measured rhetoric just more of the same from a guy that they think didn't do enough or fight hard enough.

[revo]

Joe Biden is still the horrible candidate he was the last two times he ran. Not news.

J

Except now he's the Democratic frontrunner leading the horrible president by double digits.


Re: Bernie, I agree. For whatever the reason, his supporters seem to be frantic, everyone's against us types. GITH got so frantic he left. My brother in law is convinced there's a conspiracy against Bernie that Bernie just can't seem to overcome.


Latest Poll: Massachusetts. No biggie here, Clinton won by 28% in 2016:

Massachusetts Democratic Presidential Primary	Emerson	Biden 23, Sanders 26, Warren 14, Buttigieg 11, O'Rourke 8, Harris 7, Booker 2, Klobuchar 2, Yang 1, Castro 1, Gabbard 1, Delaney 1	Sanders +3
Massachusetts: Trump vs. Biden	Emerson	Biden 69, Trump 31	Biden +38
Massachusetts: Trump vs. Sanders	Emerson	Sanders 64, Trump 36	Sanders +28
Massachusetts: Trump vs. Warren	Emerson	Warren 63, Trump 37	Warren +26

[Judge Jude]

Biden beats Trump by an extra 12 points in Warren's own state?

reminds me of Al Gore, who had the 2000 Presidential election if only his own voters in Tennessee had picked him - after voting for Bill Clinton in 1992 and 1996.

not a great look when your own people aren't "all in." that poll has Warren as doing no better than Hillary did (yes, way too early/small sample size/yadda yadda yadda).

last Presidential candidate to lose his own state had been George McGovern in 1972 - and even there, McGovern won only Mass. and DC, and his South Dakota always votes for the Republican.

[DMT]

Well, you already know the answer. Some here will agree with Obama, but we also thought Obama was a solid prez. There are those on the left who like those on the right, but for largely different reasons, think Obama was a bad president and likely see his call for continued compromise and measured rhetoric just more of the same from a guy that they think didn't do enough or fight hard enough.

I'm not a huge Obama fan and mostly agree with the critiques of him coming from the left. However, I don't think that excuses those on the left who want to throw everyone under the bus who doesn't perfectly represent their views. It's immature and a recipe for failure.

[Sour Masher]

I'm not a huge Obama fan and mostly agree with the critiques of him coming from the left. However, I don't think that excuses those on the left who want to throw everyone under the bus who doesn't perfectly represent their views. It's immature and a recipe for failure.

I agree with this, but I also see the perspective of those who believe this moment is not a time to play nice. I imagine many see this moment, against this candidate, as a real chance to push policies and specific candidates who, under more historically normal circumstances, would not have a shot (would Sanders have had any shot at all 20 years ago, or even 10?). The pendulum swing on the right toward Trump, many may believe, has caused the conditions to be right for a radical response on the left. If the GOP is going to pull hard to the right, the thinking goes, it is time to pull just as hard to the left, or we will end up in the mud in this game of tug-o-war. If such folks, who feel they have had to settle for candidates who don't really represent them, feel now, finally, and maybe for only a little while, they have a shot at seeing how this whole thing would be run by their ideals, I can see not wanting to give up that chance easily. I still hope for some measure of civility, and some acknowledgment of at least some shared values and goals. Whatever happens in the primaries, we need to unify when it is done.

[Teenwolf]

In 2010, Obama aide Rahm Emanuel called progressive activists "retarded". Now he's concerned about a circular firing squad?

He brings up all of the Republican talking points ("how are you gonna pay for it?") How the fuck is attacking Bernie's positions, when Bernie is the clear frontrunner, NOT a circular fucking firing squad?!

He doesn't want Med4All, he wants his only legacy to remain the law of the land. Selfishly weakening the Democratic position before you even get to the debate. Democrats love to compromise. You think with the current state of the Republican party there's an atmosphere for compromise?

You guys don't pay enough attention. 68% of voters age 18-24 in the 2018 midterms voted Democrat, and Obama attacks progressives... (millenials now a larger voting group than boomers)... it's so immediately divisive and self-destructive to the Democratic party, which is exactly what he pretends to fear.

DMT, I'm glad you enjoyed your pablum. We strongly disagree.

[DMT]

I agree with this, but I also see the perspective of those who believe this moment is not a time to play nice. I imagine many see this moment, against this candidate, as a real chance to push policies and specific candidates who, under more historically normal circumstances, would not have a shot (would Sanders have had any shot at all 20 years ago, or even 10?). The pendulum swing on the right toward Trump, many may believe, has caused the conditions to be right for a radical response on the left. If the GOP is going to pull hard to the left, the thinking goes, it is time to pull just as hard to the left, or we will end up in the mud in this game of tug-o-war. If such folks, who feel they have had to settle for candidates who don't really represent them, feel now, finally, and maybe for only a little while, they have a shot at seeing how this whole thing would be run by their ideals, I can see not wanting to give up that chance easily. I still hope for some measure of civility, and some acknowledgment of at least some shared values and goals. Whatever happens in the primaries, we need to unify when it is done.

I'm fully on board with fighting hard to get true progressives elected, but your last sentence is key. And there are too many out there who won't abide as such.

[DMT]

In 2010, Obama aide Rahm Emanuel called progressive activists "retarded". Now he's concerned about a circular firing squad?

He brings up all of the Republican talking points ("how are you gonna pay for it?") How the fuck is attacking Bernie's positions, when Bernie is the clear frontrunner, NOT a circular fucking firing squad?!

He doesn't want Med4All, he wants his only legacy to remain the law of the land. Selfishly weakening the Democratic position before you even get to the debate. Democrats love to compromise. You think with the current state of the Republican party there's an atmosphere for compromise?

You guys don't pay enough attention. 68% of voters age 18-24 in the 2018 midterms voted Democrat, and Obama attacks progressives... (millenials now a larger voting group than boomers)... it's so immediately divisive and self-destructive to the Democratic party, which is exactly what he pretends to fear.

DMT, I'm glad you enjoyed your pablum. We strongly disagree.

Really no idea what that means. But again, I'm not the only one calling out your increasingly hostile attitude toward other Democrats. You say in one post you're just "noting his/her weaknesses" as a candidate but the rest of your posts are very antagonistic and sometimes insulting. Like you, and GITH, I am fully in support of Sanders and volunteered both time and money to his last campaign. But because I agree with the last winning Democratic president that we need to unify to defeat Trump, I'm trite and naive? Gimme a break. Or honestly, it might be time to give yourself a break.

[Teenwolf]

I'm not a huge Obama fan and mostly agree with the critiques of him coming from the left. However, I don't think that excuses those on the left who want to throw everyone under the bus who doesn't perfectly represent their views. It's immature and a recipe for failure.

I'm going to show you this isn't about "maturity", it's about the importance of holding these candidates feet to the fire before giving Trump the first shot. Protecting these candidates and pretending that questioning their records isn't an attack and it isn't immature. It's democracy, and it's the best way to ensure we choose a candidate based on policy proposals instead of flowery language.

I'd like to direct everybody to an excellent article from a few days ago that takes a critical look at Bernie Sanders. It's by a progressive journalist that does great work, Ryan Grim. This piece is from The Intercept.

Huh, so a progressive writes an article that's critical of the frontrunner... is it a circular firing squad or is it simply following progressive ideals that tell us no candidate should be free from scrutiny, so we mold better candidates? Hmm, I wonder... since he didn't simply resort to Republican talking points, but rather laid out a nuanced strategic failure, I would posit that Grim's article is much less of a circular firing squad than Obama's statements.

For Sanders, the trappings of politics and campaigns are by default either corrupting or absurd in comparison to the scale of the true crises facing the American people. It’s not about political expediency: He doesn’t want his opponents caught up in frivolous debates, either, even when it means giving up some advantage. “The American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn emails,” he famously said in an October 2015 debate with Hillary Clinton, then went on to add: “Let me say something about the media as well. I go around the country, talk to a whole lot of people. Middle class of this country is collapsing. We have 27 million people living in poverty. We have massive wealth and income inequality. Our trade policies have cost us millions of decent jobs. The American people want to know whether we’re going to have a democracy or an oligarchy as a result of Citizens United. Enough of the emails, let’s talk about the real issues.”

Sanders refuses to engage with things that annoy him. But he is no longer a protest candidate and can no longer escape the old adage that you may not be interested in politics, but politics is interested in you. He’s running not to make a statement or drag the conversation to the left, but to be the leader of the most powerful country in the history of the world and to rescue it from its collision course with a dystopian future. People rightly want to know whether he has his act together enough to do that, particularly as they experience life under the presidency of a man who clearly does not.

Sanders’s refusal to bend on any issue, no matter how minor, may be endearing to his most passionate supporters, but he’s doing both them and the country a disservice. An unbending approach to minutiae harms not only him, but his movement — and begins to look selfish and entitled. A million people have raised their hands to volunteer to make Sanders president. They deserve more from him.

This article is respectful but firm and fair. I understand that my own hyperventilating about these candidates is a bummer for you guys. I'll try to emulate Grim and take a more respectful tone in regards to my concerns. Except for Handsy Uncle Joseph. No respect for that unapologetic creep.

[DMT]

I agree, Biden refusing to apologize was a serious blunder.

[revo]

My most important issue? Beating Trump. I honestly could not care less about anything else they want to discuss. I want the candidate most likely to beat Trump to get the nod. And at this time, that’s not Bernie, sorry. But if he does get the nod, I’ll tell you right now I’d vote for him 100%.

[Teenwolf]

I agree, Biden refusing to apologize was a serious blunder.

Thank you! We agree, 28 years without apologizing to Anita hill is a major blunder.

[Teenwolf]

My most important issue? Beating Trump. I honestly could not care less about anything else they want to discuss. I want the candidate most likely to beat Trump to get the nod. And at this time, that’s not Bernie, sorry. But if he does get the nod, I’ll tell you right now I’d vote for him 100%.

Bernie needs to prove himself to older financially secure voters like you. That's what the primary season is all about.

Same goes for the others proving themselves to progressives. I don't see the reason to avoid critical analysis of anybody, including Bernie.

[revo]

Bernie needs to prove himself to older financially secure voters like you. That's what the primary season is all about.

Same goes for the others proving themselves to progressives. I don't see the reason to avoid critical analysis of anybody, including Bernie.

Exactly. And don't get me wrong, I'm a Bernie fan. He's a fellow member of the tribe. But it does trouble me that he was in the same graduating class at the same HS as my dad, and my dad has been gone almost 13 years now. That's not too much older than Biden, but at Bernie's age, they age exponentially quicker. But if he wins the Dem nomination, I'll fly Bernie flags on my truck!