Election 2020

[B-Fly]

Yes, I as amended, I have heard the "no more old white men" trope with some frequency, which is sometimes but not always extended to "no Baby Boomers" (bringing in Hillary Clinton and Elizabeth Warren as also too old to run), or "no white males" of any age (bringing in O'Rourke, Hickenlooper, Buttigieg, Inslee). I think all of that is nonsense, to some extent, although I will admit that I harbor some inherent preference for younger candidates.

[gcstomp]

I am optimistic that Dems have so many quality candidates, the gauntlet of debates and fund raising narrows field. Hit pieces by questionable sources with flawed data should not be disqualifying. Its not like a candidate was caught on camera saying he could grab a woman by her privates, and she will let him because he is rich, or be on record as saying he would go backstage to his beauty contestants changing room and openly gawk at exposed women. That would be gross and should be disqualifying. But its not even in top 500 of major issues someone should have with Trump, yet Biden is doa because he for 1/2 a century has hugged in a non sexual way (and all these complaints are clear this was non sexual but more invasion of personal space) every man, woman, and child like he is an older uncle?

We have a stellar field of quality qualified candidates, and miles to go before we should be hitting the eject button on what are clearly better people than Trump in every way.

[swampdragon]

Specifically it suggests he "doesn't deserve to benefit from Biden's issues with women, because he's guilty by association as a fellow old white man". Pretty damn stupid.

Here's the last 1/3 of the NPR article, where it shifts to focus on Bernie Sanders' campaign sexual harassment allegations, despite the fact that Kamala Harris & Gillibrand both dealt with the exact same campaign harassment claims! His conclusion is that we should elect a woman, so... ignore Harris & Gillibrand dealing with the exact same issue? Do you suppose this writer for NPR just hasn't heard about the allegations against Harris and Gillibrand's campaigns, or is he withholding it purposefully? What other woman could he be suggesting should win??? Such utter trash.



https://www.npr.org/2019/04/02/70892...pply-to-himtoo

You are losing credibility by citing things either selectively or incorrectly.

Thanks for putting the link - so I went to the source.

I can't find the quote you added
"doesn't deserve to benefit from Biden's issues with women, because he's guilty by association as a fellow old white man".

If that is your interpretation, that is fine just don't highlight it as a quote within the source.

[Teenwolf]

You are losing credibility by citing things either selectively or incorrectly.

Thanks for putting the link - so I went to the source.

I can't find the quote you added
"doesn't deserve to benefit from Biden's issues with women, because he's guilty by association as a fellow old white man".

If that is your interpretation, that is fine just don't highlight it as a quote within the source.

Grammar nazi. I gave the quote and summarized it.

[Teenwolf]

Someone please explain why the campaign sexual harassment issues for Harris, Gillibrand and Clinton are non-issues, but the same scenario for Bernie is a critical flaw.

[gcstomp]

Its a zero issue nothing for Bernie. Unless you venture into dark corners and google thru a maze to get to answer you want. Bernie is front runner among the declared field of 15 dems, clearly a non issue.

[gcstomp]

The age issue is real though. Or it is to just me, and I am finding supporting material on the google machine to self perpetuate my own ageism outlook. This despite me wanting Bernie to be Prez right this second. Oy, the way will be long before we get even a hint of clarity, should pack a snack for journey.

[Teenwolf]

Its a zero issue nothing for Bernie. Unless you venture into dark corners and google thru a maze to get to answer you want. Bernie is front runner among the declared field of 15 dems, clearly a non issue.

I understand that the campaign sexual harassment is a non-issue, which is why I get so frustrated to see media slam Bernie on the issue but ignore it for other candidates. Everything is selective. Same with how they attacked Bernie on his reparations response while claiming others supported reparations (not true).

But I expect the slanted news to continue, and I'm prepared for a long fight.

[Teenwolf]

I am optimistic that Dems have so many quality candidates, the gauntlet of debates and fund raising narrows field. Hit pieces by questionable sources with flawed data should not be disqualifying. Its not like a candidate was caught on camera saying he could grab a woman by her privates, and she will let him because he is rich, or be on record as saying he would go backstage to his beauty contestants changing room and openly gawk at exposed women. That would be gross and should be disqualifying. But its not even in top 500 of major issues someone should have with Trump, yet Biden is doa because he for 1/2 a century has hugged in a non sexual way (and all these complaints are clear this was non sexual but more invasion of personal space) every man, woman, and child like he is an older uncle?

We have a stellar field of quality qualified candidates, and miles to go before we should be hitting the eject button on what are clearly better people than Trump in every way.

I find it interesting that nobody defending Biden includes him kissing strangers.

These new reports, resting his hand on a 19 year old girl's thigh + sliding his hand down a married woman's back... that shit is so creepy. It's not well intentioned. It's not a hug or a handshake. It's a gross display of chauvinism and of abusing authority.

[DMT]

I find it interesting that nobody defending Biden includes him kissing strangers.

These new reports, resting his hand on a 19 year old girl's thigh + sliding his hand down a married woman's back... that shit is so creepy. It's not well intentioned. It's not a hug or a handshake. It's a gross display of chauvinism and of abusing authority.

Again you're attempts to turn him into a monster are way off base.

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1113515882960052224?s=19

[Sour Masher]

I understand that the campaign sexual harassment is a non-issue, which is why I get so frustrated to see media slam Bernie on the issue but ignore it for other candidates. Everything is selective. Same with how they attacked Bernie on his reparations response while claiming others supported reparations (not true).

But I expect the slanted news to continue, and I'm prepared for a long fight.

I still don't know who they are. Who is saying Bernie's stance on reparations is a deal breaker or worse than that of other candidates and also a big deal? I'm not saying it isn't happening, but it does seem like you are looking for it, or you are viewing media I'm not, and I'm always looking for new sources, so let me know which places you go. I'm not really seeing a lot of media pieces that attack Sanders and give a pass to Biden and the rest for the same sorts of things.

That NPR piece mentioning Sanders in a piece about Biden, but not mentioning other candidates with the same issues doesn't seem that odd or anti-Sanders to me. It seems more about the fact that Sanders is the other front-runner in the race. The lead candidates always get more attention and criticism that the also-rans.

[Sour Masher]

Again you're attempts to turn him into a monster are way off base.

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/...960052224?s=19

Yeah, it seems like the sort of over the top attack TW is claiming all kinds of media are making on Sanders. Terms like gross, disgusting, appalling, I just think they lose meaning if we use them as synonymous for inappropriate, presumptuous, too-touchy feely, weird, etc. The level of outrage for a lot of things, I think need to be more measured, so when a level 10 offense occurs you have a place to go from a level 5 of outrage.

Still, I do think this likely sinks his chances in the current climate.

[DMT]

Yeah, it seems like the sort of over the top attack TW is claiming all kinds of media are making on Sanders. I do think this likely sinks his chances in the current climate.

Unfortunately he seems to be going down the same path as GITH. (i.e., all candidates except for Sanders are part of the problem and so are their supporter). Hopefully I'm wrong.

[Teenwolf]

You guys understand I'm speaking about his electability and not his character, right? I don't think he's a monster, I think he's monstrously flawed, a surefire loser vs Trump. These indiscretions rank far down my list of reasons he's a bad candidate for the job, but they rank fairly high up in showcasing his vulnerability, and why he would lose.

I'll repeat for the 10th time, I hope Joe Biden does run. I hope he loses based on his track record with Anita Hill, Biden crime bill, war in Iraq, writing the Patriot Act, removing consumer bankruptcy protections, comments against desegregated buses, as opposed to his creepiness.

[Sour Masher]

You guys understand I'm speaking about his electability and not his character, right? I don't think he's a monster, I think he's monstrously flawed, a surefire loser vs Trump. These indiscretions rank far down my list of reasons he's a bad candidate for the job, but they rank fairly high up in showcasing his vulnerability, and why he would lose.

I'll repeat for the 10th time, I hope Joe Biden does run. I hope he loses based on his track record with Anita Hill, Biden crime bill, war in Iraq, writing the Patriot Act, removing consumer bankruptcy protections, comments against desegregated buses, as opposed to his creepiness.

Hmm, it seems to me some of the things you have said suggest you think Biden is gross, disgusting, and a total creep for his touching, kissing, etc. You even asked, if I recall correctly, compared Biden's actions to Trump's and suggested they weren't much different.

On the second list, that is worthy of debate and discussion. I was not aware he made comments suggesting he was against desegregated buses, for instance. I will look that up, if he somehow still runs, which I no longer think he will.

ETA: I looked it up. I agree he was misguided, back in the mid-70s when he thought busing to desegregate was in some way antithetical to building black community and pride and not a good or necessary solution to the segregation problem. I don't think it was racist, though. I find other things you listed a higher on the concerning scale for Biden. He has been wrong on several things. I still can't help think he is a good hearted guy who sincerely wants whats best for the country, and EVERYONE in it, not just his voters. It is a lot more than I can say for our current POTUS.

Trump's glee at Biden facing heat for his touching stuff annoys me. I still don't see them at all as the same sort of people, and I don't like that the thing that will likely tank Biden is not a spirited debate on his record, like the Iraq War, etc, but this thing, by many suggesting it is somehow on the level of what Trump has done. I'd much prefer Biden lose because voters decided he was wrong as politician on too many things than because voters think he is Left-Wing Trump when it comes to his inappropriate interactions with woman. I don't think he deserves that characterization.