Election 2020

[GwynnInTheHall]

Math is Winning.

[Kevin Seitzer]

Wouldn't it be wonderful to have the next election have two great candidates that the thought/words lesser of two evils would not come into play. Candidates that would have the wisdom and the heart to lead our nation into greatness. Where each party prefers their own candidate, but would still want to support the office of the President?

Barack Obama was basically that, and yet the Republicans acted like he was the devil. That was the point at which I lost hope in the Republican Party actually caring about America. I think McCain would count for that, too. And Romney isn't exactly my cup of tea, but I'd be willing to grant him that status. I don't think the problem is that generally the candidates have been awful. I think the problem is that Donald Trump is awful, no? And that he drags down the whole discourse? And that the Republicans wouldn't accept even Jesus if he were the Democratic candidate?

ETA: By listing Obama, McCain, and Romney, I don't mean to suggest I agree with all their policies. But Obama and McCain, especially, strike me as men of high character who were wise and devoted to the service of their countries. I don't know what more you could ask unless you wanted them each to literally be perfect and have no faults and agree with you on everything.

[Kevin Seitzer]

I think there is evidence that Biden is of high character and devoted to the service of his country, too. I don't know how wise or how good of a leader he will be. Time will tell. And he is really old, which is not ideal. I think if Biden and Romney were the worst sort of candidates we got, we'd be in amazing shape.

[Kevin Seitzer]

This is how I'd line them up since Reagan (when I was really too young to evaluate fairly)

Top tier - couldn't do much better than this if you're being realistic about the job being incredibly hard for one human to undertake
Obama, McCain

Pretty strong, but with potentially major weaknesses or not outstanding in leadership - this should be the floor, and we'd be fine
Romney, Biden, Dole, Gore, B. Clinton, Bush Sr

Meh, not awful but feel like we should do better
H. Clinton, Kerry, Dukakis

Really not qualified but at least somewhat decent as human beings
GW Bush

50 feet of Crap

Absurdly bad
Trump

[Kevin Seitzer]

If you want to throw Ross Perot in that list, he's somewhere between the "Meh not awful" and "Really not qualified" buckets.

[TranaGreg]

Barack Obama was basically that, and yet the Republicans acted like he was the devil. That was the point at which I lost hope in the Republican Party actually caring about America. I think McCain would count for that, too. And Romney isn't exactly my cup of tea, but I'd be willing to grant him that status. I don't think the problem is that generally the candidates have been awful. I think the problem is that Donald Trump is awful, no? And that he drags down the whole discourse? And that the Republicans wouldn't accept even Jesus if he were the Democratic candidate?

ETA: By listing Obama, McCain, and Romney, I don't mean to suggest I agree with all their policies. But Obama and McCain, especially, strike me as men of high character who were wise and devoted to the service of their countries. I don't know what more you could ask unless you wanted them each to literally be perfect and have no faults and agree with you on everything.

To me the problem is how a political party could go all-in with someone like him, that there were no checks and balances to prevent someone like that from leading the party and the country. And obviously it worked ... But at what cost ...

[DMT]

To me the problem is how a political party could go all-in with someone like him, that there were no checks and balances to prevent someone like that from leading the party and the country. And obviously it worked ... But at what cost ...

I loathe the Trump Party as much as anyone, but how do you put checks and balances on a person who nearly 70M people voted to re-elect?

[fuhrdog]

I loathe the Trump Party as much as anyone, but how do you put checks and balances on a person who nearly 70M people voted to re-elect?

Make people pass a test to vote

[The Feral Slasher]

This is how I'd line them up since Reagan (when I was really too young to evaluate fairly)

Top tier - couldn't do much better than this if you're being realistic about the job being incredibly hard for one human to undertake
Obama, McCain

Pretty strong, but with potentially major weaknesses or not outstanding in leadership - this should be the floor, and we'd be fine
Romney, Biden, Dole, Gore, B. Clinton, Bush Sr

Meh, not awful but feel like we should do better
H. Clinton, Kerry, Dukakis

Really not qualified but at least somewhat decent as human beings
GW Bush

50 feet of Crap

Absurdly bad
Trump

I really struggle to give anyone a good grade seeing the rise of incredible inequality and the plight of the working class over the last 40 years. I really hope that gets better under Biden, I am rooting hard for him to surprise me.

[fuhrdog]

I really struggle to give anyone a good grade seeing the rise of incredible inequality and the plight of the working class over the last 40 years. I really hope that gets better under Biden, I am rooting hard for him to surprise me.

Pretty much agree with you and i find it unrealistic to expect much of Biden with Mitch still around.

[The Feral Slasher]

Pretty much agree with you and i find it unrealistic to expect much of Biden with Mitch still around.

I am happy Trump is (apparently) gone, and all I can do is hope at this point. I don't expect much.

[revo]

BTW, there was a very positive jobs report this morning. Not a peep from the Orange Turd about it. yeah, he really cared about jobs. all he cared about these last four years was one job, his.

[Kevin Seitzer]

I really struggle to give anyone a good grade seeing the rise of incredible inequality and the plight of the working class over the last 40 years. I really hope that gets better under Biden, I am rooting hard for him to surprise me.

Okay maybe above my top tier you have a tier for FDR and Abraham Lincoln. I wish we had a leader like that, too. And like fuhrdog, I wonder how much even they could accomplish with Mitch McConnell running their Senate.

[The Feral Slasher]

I really struggle to give anyone a good grade seeing the rise of incredible inequality and the plight of the working class over the last 40 years. I really hope that gets better under Biden, I am rooting hard for him to surprise me.

at every freeway offramp and many other intersections i see homeless people. I didn't see that 30 years ago. why is that ? why could our government, the greatest in the world, not figure it out. why is that not even an issue in presidential debates and to our presidents?

[The Feral Slasher]

Okay maybe above my top tier you have a tier for FDR and Abraham Lincoln. I wish we had a leader like that, too. And like fuhrdog, I wonder how much even they could accomplish with Mitch McConnell running their Senate.

I expect a lot more than most people I suspect. Just really hard for me to accept what our country has become.