Election 2020

[revo]

Some of that is changing.......I believe 538 reported that the 20 wealthiest counties are represented by Democrats. Democrats also won the vote total among people making over $200k a year. Republicans won amongst those making between 50-100k (I believe that was the $ amount)

Yeah, I can believe it. But this vote was a sudden change as a revolt to Trump. Lots of factors involved as to why, but for decades the GOP was the elitist millionaires, and even if that’s changing, to suddenly label Dems “elitist” is just trying to deceive.

[nots]

Yeah, I can believe it. But this vote was a sudden change as a revolt to Trump. Lots of factors involved as to why, but for decades the GOP was the elitist millionaires, and even if that’s changing, to suddenly label Dems “elitist” is just trying to deceive.

I agree the Trump factor has muddied the waters as to who is voting for whom a bit, but I do think the Democratic Party has shifted some to the more financially wealthy, which in part, gave Trump his opening with the middle class. The 2022 election will probably be the first test for the theory.

[DMT]

Yeah, I can believe it. But this vote was a sudden change as a revolt to Trump. Lots of factors involved as to why, but for decades the GOP was the elitist millionaires, and even if that’s changing, to suddenly label Dems “elitist” is just trying to deceive.

But it's a pretty common Republican talking point where "elitist" is often used as a substitute for educated. And I actually agree there is an elitist element to the Democratic Party consisting of wealthy corporatists of which the Clintons are certainly representative. It's partially why so many "progressives" refused to vote for her.

[onejayhawk]

Saying Democrats are “elitist” is just more gaslighting by the Republicans, so it goes without saying that you’ve bought into it. It’s beyond silly. The GOP has ALWAYS been the party of the wealthy and uber-wealthy; the conservative, upper crust whites; the tony private schools, country clubs and elite suburbs.

And if you haven’t realized, your president is a tony billionaire elitist.

Funny. I thought you called Trump a populist but perhaps that was someone else. In any event, calling Trump an elitist is silly. He is elite, by your definition, but he does not hold himself apart from common people. HRC is the one who scorned them and mafe up a new pejorative. At least she enlarged the lexicon.

While it is common to call the Republicans the party of the rich, it has always been political spin. If it was ever more true than not it was when deplorables were Democratics. These days the Democrats are the party of academia, trial lawyers, Hollywood, and Silicon Valley, ie modern elites. They abandoded their former base in the 1960s, which gave Reagan the opportunity to steal a chunk of them. Trump stole another chunk. the question you should be asking is whether they are gone for the long term.

J

[DMT]

Funny. I thought you called Trump a populist but perhaps that was someone else. In any event, calling Trump an elitist is silly. He is elite, by your definition, but he does not hold himself apart from common people.

This is one of the more ridiculous things you've ever written.

[revo]

This is one of the more ridiculous things you've ever written.

He doesn’t seem to get that it’s all an act, just some shit he threw against the wall that worked. He’s the PT Barnum of this era, and Onejay bought season tickets to the circus.

[onejayhawk]

He doesn’t seem to get that it’s all an act, just some shit he threw against the wall that worked. He’s the PT Barnum of this era, and Onejay bought season tickets to the circus.

You seem to think it's all an act.

If he's Phineas Barnum, then he's worth a vote. So, that doesn't work for you.

J

[revo]

You seem to think it's all an act.

If he's Phineas Barnum, then he's worth a vote. So, that doesn't work for you.

J

If it’s NOT an act, can you point to anything in his past that would suggest he worked for the common folks before?

[onejayhawk]

If it’s NOT an act, can you point to anything in his past that would suggest he worked for the common folks before?

Pick any campaign rally. Literally any of them.

J

[revo]

Pick any campaign rally. Literally any of them.

J

Umm, in his PRE-political life. I thought that went without saying. Of course at his campaign rallies he’s going to put on the act! That’s the whole show!

[onejayhawk]

Umm, in his PRE-political life. I thought that went without saying. Of course at his campaign rallies he’s going to put on the act! That’s the whole show!

It doesn't go without saying. I don't know squat about his life before he announced. I never watched a single episode of the show, saw interviews, or followed him in the news. I was not happy to have him as the only alternative to HRC on the ballot. That's life. He's proven himself in office.

You are the one trying to eat his cake and have it again later. If he is capable of charming 40,000,000 voters with pure BS, then he is much more competent than the bumbling fool you claim he is.

J

[revo]

Yes, he [was] a charming personality. That’s how he dominated the NYC tabloids for three decades. He was a larger than life figure. I don’t think anyone can dispute that.

But as a leader, he’s a snake oil salesman who’s charmed an electorate who can’t tell the difference between the NYC tabloid star and a competent professional.

Trump is far from the first celebrity to be elected to office, nor is he the first celebrity to be elected to the office of President. But he may be the first celebrity who has shown such a lack of understanding and comprehension of the job at stake combined with an arrogance that he already knows better.

[onejayhawk]

As a leader, he leads. The wins are in the book to prove it.

J

[revo]

As a leader, he leads. The wins are in the book to prove it.

J

Yes, because you’re a follower. He can do no wrong in your eyes. To you, he’s a moden-day Theodore Roosevelt.

Now to the other 60% of the country he’s a corrupt, con artist, amateur man-baby who’s in way over his head.

[Sour Masher]

As a leader, he leads. The wins are in the book to prove it.

J

Yes, as you and Chance have proven many times, that is all that matters to you--winning. To that I say, be careful where that "leader" leads. Those 40 million people you think he must be so clever to have charmed are not new or special. The world has always had them, and we see them now, not only in the US, but all over the globe, where democracies are faltering in the face of change. Those who feel like frogs in slowly boiling pots, suddenly feeling their world is changing for the worse, abandon their beliefs in their government, abandon their beliefs in the wisdom of their forebears who set up the institutions of checks and balances, in favor of charismatic, authoritarian strongmen.

And make no mistake, that is the game Trump talks; the only thing that keeps him from being that are the very checks and balances those at his rallies would abandon for the wins they want. Methods be damned, results are what they want! By any means necessary. And Trump is the man to do it. They revel in his attacks on his enemies, foreign and domestic, even if those enemies were long held allies of our country. They dismiss his embrace of new allies, even if they are long held enemies that have never had our best interest at heart. They dismiss the traditions he tramples on in his quest for "winning." They would allow him anything, overlook all his sins, as long as he is at the lead for their team, and driving them to victory. Even if that victory is over the very principles our nation was founded on, and tramples over half or more of the population, and hurts the rest of the world in the process.

That is who you support. There can be no denying that is who he is. He will go just as far as he can, as far as he thinks his support will allow him. Support him in total, and watch him become what history has always judged, in the end, to be most reviled. You are on the wrong side of history in your support for this man. And what is more, I'm done just blaming him for who he is allowed to be. All those who support him are to blame for what he is, and all those who continue to support him are to blame for what they let him become. I continue to take solace in the fact that he will never have enough support to fully realize his vision. He will never grow up to be the Putin or Duterte or Jinping who he so wishes he could be, because not enough of this country will ever abandon our principles to allow him and those who cheer at his rallies to achieve that goal.