Election 2020

[The Feral Slasher]

It seems obvious to me that if you represent people who feel the current system is not working for them that some of them will be angry. I dont think that is a valid reason to discount Sanders, but clearly the democratic party thinks it is since they use it to attack him. Maybe they should just appeal and represent people who have good manners

I actually find it pathetic that the Democratic Party uses this to attack Sanders. People struggling to pay health care bills or survive week to week...damn why aren't they more respectful.

[Sour Masher]

I actually find it pathetic that the Democratic Party uses this to attack Sanders. People struggling to pay health care bills or survive week to week...damn why aren't they more respectful.

Do you think her anger/frustration is real, or is she using this as an excuse to not back Sanders right now? I could believe both, but her anger at the doxxing and threats she talks about seems sincere. IDK. I'm easily dupped by shows of strong emotions, and she has them on this. I get what you are saying, though. At the same time, I guess she feels like, why attack me and those that support me when I want those things too. And the retort here is some don't believe she does, and is only taking support from the one guy that does.

I an torn on it all, because in general, I'm not a fan of the aggressive tactics she is talking about. Doxxing people you don't agree with, threats--it isn't the way to go about changing things. But I understand the larger issues matter more, and I get the frustration that leads to this stuff.

ETA: As you say though, those that do that in support of Sanders are not Sanders. I don't think he has ever condoned the stuff some of his most fervent, and misguided supporters do. I'm sure he would or has condemned them, in fact.

[nullnor]

i think i was wrong about Warren. it's not that she is fake. it's that she takes things personal and ends up in unforced errors. i did some reading about how she became Senator, and it turns out that Obama convinced her to run so he could get rid of her crawling up his ass during the financial crises. so i don't know my history very well. and i am willing to think that even though she taught the very people how, in her class, to takes homes from the victims of the housing crises, while the banks, the people she taught got bailed out - she was actually fighting for the poor and middle class. and it probably is sexist to criticize a woman for having ambition and sharp elbows no matter how she ended up there.

i've been very impressed with a lot of comments about Warren dropping out in the NYT and especially the Guardian. https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...rop-out-bernie

The status quo in 2020 means fascism by 2030, given that it's producing the raw materials of fascism (resentment, collective educational deficit, the collapse of every reciprocity of everyday life and its replacement by the empty, predatory shadow puppetry of the media...) as surely as yeast produces alcohol...until that alcohol poisons it and it dies.

the comments were ok, but dam, their vocabulary was outstanding. i kept reading the guardian comments in the article, older comments are better and felt like i should've been wring down some of the words the people used. and i don't have a bad vocabulary. i don't show it off.

but then i thought, wow there really is a huge difference. it's like two different worlds now. speaking two different languages. not because of the big words and expressions. it's like one world is too educated and the other not. and i mean that in different ways. i think everyone are masters of their trade in their own way and what they believe.

and this is where i fault older liberals. they have it good. i know. up until last year before i decided to hit the road in an RV i had everything i ever wanted. and this is where a lot of you are now. you're saying why rock a system that is giving me everything i want right now. when Biden criticizes or makes light of millennial's having it tough. but they do. college costs, the cost of climate change that they will have to bear. they aren't stupid. they know they are getting fucked. while us older liberals want to hold on to our good lifestyle at their expense and not make waves.

when you turn around and blame the very people that are trying to help you. or blame them for rocking the boat. instead of blaming the people that are literally ruining the future for selfish reasons. it still amazes me that republicans also blame the very people that are trying to help them instead of the so-called job providers and their 21% corporate tax rate and lower capital gains rate while fucking things up too. and i think this is how fascism happens.

there's a reason, when you look around and see places like the dollar store thriving. i remember during the housing crises watching real stores being replaced literally by fidelity offices.

what we are doing right now is not sustainable. and regarding people in Britain. they are going through the same thing we are. and everybody else for that matter. and you could say this started 100's of years ago. but the fact is, we lost.

electing another status quo democrat will just make it worse in the long run. and i contradict myself when i save no-one can be some magical savoir. there is one guy that gets it. someone that has been saying it his whole life. and he is so old, it's now or never. i don't see anyone else taking up Sanders cause in the near future.

maybe it will happen. but i think it's better to sit out the election and let Trump win. let the democrats know the world needs to take a major step backwards before anything will ever change. GITH was right a long. you guys are just worried about losing your current gravy train and meal ticket at the expense of the future generation. they know that. you need to make some sacrifices if you want things to change or prevent total collapse.

geez guys for the last 30 years, since the Gringrich revolution every time the democrats move to the right, the republicans move the goal posts farther. when will we learn to stand our ground.

[The Feral Slasher]

Do you think her anger/frustration is real, or is she using this as an excuse to not back Sanders right now? I could believe both, but her anger at the doxxing and threats she talks about seems sincere. IDK. I'm easily dupped by shows of strong emotions, and she has them on this. I get what you are saying, though. At the same time, I guess she feels like, why attack me and those that support me when I want those things too. And the retort here is some don't believe she does, and is only taking support from the one guy that does.

I an torn on it all, because in general, I'm not a fan of the aggressive tactics she is talking about. Doxxing people you don't agree with, threats--it isn't the way to go about changing things. But I understand the larger issues matter more, and I get the frustration that leads to this stuff.

ETA: As you say though, those that do that in support of Sanders are not Sanders. I don't think he has ever condoned the stuff some of his most fervent, and misguided supporters do. I'm sure he would or has condemned them, in fact.

I didn't read the article. From what u say it sounds like some sanders supporters went way over the line. Which is completely unaccepatable. No other way to say it.

What i dont think is fair is to use some random assholes online to discredit and attack sanders. Unless he is encouraging them in which case he deserves criticism

[GwynnInTheHall]

People go way over the Line--I have in here as have others. It's human nature--

Bernie has not, ever.

I know that Bernie is going to have to pull out a miracle to win the nom now. Warren has thrown her hat in with the Never Sanders crowd.

The system works in the manner it was intended to--Protect those in power and those with money and Fuck everyone else.

Sanders is the better candidate platform and ethically.

But Biden has the backing--he's a puppet, a company man and the company owns all our Souls


At least he'll be better than Trump and far better than Hillary was--he's innocuos, she was/is a snake.

Hopefully he'll surround himself with people smarter than himself and hook up a VP who can take over if any of these dementia flashes are actual warnings (remember Regan)

I'll vote for him if he's the Nom, but he has serious red flags and I worry he might lose to trump who isn't a Mensa candidate, but relay knows how to attack a guy like Boden (which Bernie will show how to do in the next debate)I just hope that should Biden win, the only thing accomplished isn't just him replacing RBG with another Liberal Justice, which is better than the alternative, but would put the Liberal agenda 16 deep with nothing to show for it.

[Teenwolf]

Fucking DNC and CNN colluding to stop Bernie.

DNC changed the debate rules to stop Tulsi Gabbard from qualifying, as they've consistently done.

Now, CNN is changing the format of the debate on Mar. 15th to a Town Hall format.... are you fucking kidding me?

Joe Biden cannot defend himself. When confronted with literally any negative detail from his record, he blatantly lies, shouts down, and refuses to answer. I've been pinning my last hope on Biden being exposed at the final 2 debates. If they screw Bernie on this... well, it would be exactly as rigged as I've been saying all along and nobody would be surprised.

2016 all over again, they picked the only guy on earth who could lose to Trump. If only Biden ran with his full faculties in 2016. He's toast now.

[Teenwolf]

Buckle up.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Biden mistakenly drops out of Race...Endorses Biden.

[onejayhawk]

I think the key turn of phrase belonged to Mayor Pete, "Let's nominate a Democrat."

The bottom line is that the Democrats are a party and parties have backers. The backers cannot stand Sanders and they saw what happened in 2016, when Republican backers dithered about choosing a Trump alternative. If they had gotten behind Cruz before Super Tuesday in 2016, Cruz is probably the candidate. It would have been a very different campaign that fall. Regardless, there was a window of opportunity, but it closed. Democratic backers clearly did not want to make the same mistake. Just as clearly, they prefer to risk prefer four more years to four years of Sanders.

J

[Teenwolf]

So Biden is being hidden from media. While Bernie does every Sunday show, Biden is hiding. Rachel Maddow begged him to do an interview, CNN claiming he will not interview with them, calling it "hiding" directly, and at a rally yesterday, Biden spoke for all of 7 minutes. Within that 7 minutes, he claimed he was an "O'Biden-Bama Democrat". He is not well enough to do this. B-Fly sees the disadvantage, Sour Masher doesn't think it will be an issue.

Trump is already embarrassing Biden for his mental degradation, and winning on it. It will only get worse.

[Teenwolf]

Also from within the same 7 minute speech, this is a goddamn quote.

"We cannot get re-elect. We cannot win this re-election. Excuse me, we can ONLY re-elect Donald Trump."

Trump put out an ad with the direct clip of him saying this and CNN put out a claim that the video is "deceptively edited", because it doesn't include what he said after that. Man, if you're saying shit like the quote above because you cannot form rational sentences anymore, you're toast. He made 3 consecutive attempts to simply say "elect me" and he said a different variation of "I can't win", 3 times in a row! Voters aren't going to vote out of sympathy.

It's so fucked they're literally changing the debate to a Town Hall to help Biden survive. Good thing he'll face his first real test against Trump. While Biden has been on the No Malarkey tour to bingo halls, Trump has been sharpening his knives speaking to 20K rallies for 3 hours at a time. Good luck with that.

[Sour Masher]

He is not well enough to do this. B-Fly sees the disadvantage, Sour Masher doesn't think it will be an issue.

You are misrepresenting me here. I only said that public speaking is not an issue Trump can effectively challenge anyone on, but it is an issue. My larger take is the primaries have already been decided, so this is the candidate we have. I know you still think Bernie has a shot, despite what we have already seen from voters, the media, and the Democratic party. I did not realize it, but you are a more optimistic person than I am--at least on this. So, yeah, I am going to hope for the best going forward. Voters have spoken, and the other players involved are going to do their best to make sure Bernie doesn't stage an upset comeback. The whole set up is flawed on many levels, but here we are. You continue to post reasons for why I am right, but you won't accept it.

I just don't see a path for Bernie at this point. Biden is like a football team with a lead and an injured QB (his lost step, or whatever people want to politely call it). They are running out the clock, and the refs are helping. Sorry, I don't see the hail Mary from Bernie landing. That's not me buying into the media narrative. That is me seeing all the odds and seeing they are too long.Bernie is down 7 with seconds on the clock, people are leaving the stands, the refs just called a penalty on Bernie, and they are watering the fields to make it tougher going in the waning seconds in the game. I still don't know if the recent posts are venting about the uneven playing field or real hope for the home team. I suspect the former. You must know how long a shot Bernie is at this point. The media are not lying about that.

Regardless of how we got here, and what is happening now, I still prefer the candidate we will have to the guy in office now, by a long shot.

[Art Vandelay]

... CNN put out a claim that the video is "deceptively edited", because it doesn't include what he said after that...

cnn is the king of editing to fit their narrative.

[Sour Masher]

Voters aren't going to vote out of sympathy.

Your continued high regard for American voters amazes me. 1. Many voters vote for the letter, not the name after it. 2. Many voters do not watch debates or even listen to the candidates firsthand; they listen to pundits and media personalities, if anyone, and by your own admission, many of them will ignore the issues you are touting with Biden. 3. Many voters will want Trump gone and will vote for a guy who will return things to "normal" (even if that normal is not as good as it could be).

Number three is my hope, anyhow. This election, we will see if Trump won because he was running against a singularly unpopular candidate who ran a spectacularly flawed campaign. If 75% of peak Biden can beat Trump, it is pretty obvious that is what happened.

[frae]

Also from within the same 7 minute speech, this is a goddamn quote.

"We cannot get re-elect. We cannot win this re-election. Excuse me, we can ONLY re-elect Donald Trump."

Trump put out an ad with the direct clip of him saying this and CNN put out a claim that the video is "deceptively edited", because it doesn't include what he said after that. Man, if you're saying shit like the quote above because you cannot form rational sentences anymore, you're toast. He made 3 consecutive attempts to simply say "elect me" and he said a different variation of "I can't win", 3 times in a row! Voters aren't going to vote out of sympathy.

It's so fucked they're literally changing the debate to a Town Hall to help Biden survive. Good thing he'll face his first real test against Trump. While Biden has been on the No Malarkey tour to bingo halls, Trump has been sharpening his knives speaking to 20K rallies for 3 hours at a time. Good luck with that.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/08/politics/fact-check-trump-campaign-promote-edited-biden-video/index.html

The clip, which was viewed more than 5.8 million times and retweeted more than 34,000 times as of Sunday morning at 10 AM, showed Biden struggling with a line in his Saturday speech in Kansas City, Missouri, then saying, "Excuse me. We can only re-elect Donald Trump."

But the clip was edited to cut out the second part of Biden's sentence. What the former vice president actually said was this: "Excuse me. We can only re-elect Donald Trump if in fact we get engaged in this circular firing squad here. It's gotta be a positive campaign." Biden had called for an end to "negative attacks" in his primary contest with Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders.

Sanders isn’t a democrat and that matters. If he didn’t think a third party candidate could win the presidency he should have changed parties a long time ago. The Democratic machine supporting a Democrat is not a conspiracy. Sanders getting heated soundly on Super Tuesday is not a conspiracy. Young voters not coming out in any higher numbers isn’t a conspiracy. Sanders is going to lose more decidedly than last time because Biden doesn’t have the unfavorable numbers Clinton did. This race is over so hopefully everyone lines up and votes for Biden because if not 4 more years of Trump is going to be dangerous.