Election 2020

[In the Corn]

Thoughts on Bernie suggesting Fidel Castro did good with his literacy program?

Why would he give this kind of fodder to other campaigns? Horrible blunder. Stop praising dictators. (on the other hand, it's worked for Trump, so who knows?)

Seems as though the Democrats are real pleased with Bernie's comments about Castro.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/484414-sanders-under-fire-from-democrats-over-praise-for-castro-regime

I mean even Mussolini kept the trains on time. I think this comment is going to hurt.

As much as Trump love Putin and Kim Jong Un, Bernie can't be pumping up Socialist dictators and think that's a winning strategy.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Seems as though the Democrats are real pleased with Bernie's comments about Castro.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/484414-sanders-under-fire-from-democrats-over-praise-for-castro-regime

I mean even Mussolini kept the trains on time. I think this comment is going to hurt.

As much as Trump love Putin and Kim Jong Un, Bernie can't be pumping up Socialist dictators and think that's a winning strategy.

Pumping up socialist dictators? Is that what you call what he did? Heh, this reminds me of when they jumped him for writing an essay on some peoples sexual fetishes.

It's a nothing burger, but hey people are all into burgers with no meat nowadays so, it might gain some traction with some folks.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Another thing I would like to see if for Sanders supporters to not use the term Sandernistas. It again just calls forth his former praise and support for failed socialist revolutions in Cuba and South America. Many younger voters may be excited if he brands his campaign as a revolution, but older voters would be turned off by such branding. Aligning with FDR, as TS Garp has said, is a much better angle imo.

I still say the biggest threat to his success against Trump will be the attacks against his ideology. He is going to have to deal with the fact that he is on record stating that Med4All would bankrupt the country (actually, he said Medicaid, but it will be used to attack Med4All), and he is on the record as stating the best way to deal with wealth inequality is through taxation and "public ownership of significant parts of the economy." I know the Sanders supporters here don't see the tax stuff, or the ideology that government ownership and control of various industries as that big a deal, but it is the biggest reason the DNC fears him, and it will be the biggest thing Trump uses against him.

TW has said the attacks on him being a socialist are not worthy of response, but I think Sanders is smart enough to know they are, and he will have to build a strong defense against it. They can't attack him ad hominem (they can, but there is no real there, there), so attacking his ideology will be the main avenue of attack.

It's already handled. Sanders is adept at explaining/defending his ideology. It's particularly effective when you have to actually listen to him when he does it--which happens in any debate. You can't effectively defend/discuss ANY topic when you're fighting 5 second soundbites out of context or without any really substance outside the word--Socialism paired with pictures of communists.

Again, anyone truly swayed by such crap wasn't going to vote for him anyhow.

BTW, I like the term Sandernista.

[In the Corn]

Pumping up socialist dictators? Is that what you call what he did? Heh, this reminds me of when they jumped him for writing an essay on some peoples sexual fetishes.

It's a nothing burger, but hey people are all into burgers with no meat nowadays so, it might gain some traction with some folks.

Here's a website talking about Joseph Stalin and the "good" he did. https://www.theperspective.com/debat...-hero-villain/ Do we give a candidate a pass if they say Joe helped raise the standard of living for the Russian folks?

GITH, I'm a pretty educated guy, and I understand what Sanders was saying, but man, you can't be so blind that Bernie is stepping in dog poop that he put there. In a sound bite election, Castro and literacy will be something we will be hearing for until November.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Here's a website talking about Joseph Stalin and the "good" he did. https://www.theperspective.com/debat...-hero-villain/ Do we give a candidate a pass if they say Joe helped raise the standard of living for the Russian folks?

GITH, I'm a pretty educated guy, and I understand what Sanders was saying, but man, you can't be so blind that Bernie is stepping in dog poop that he put there. In a sound bite election, Castro and literacy will be something we will be hearing for until November.

I'm not blind, I get how to the Uneducated person a sound bite can be impactful, but Sanders isn't recommending Dictator style Socialism, he's advocating FDR/Western European style democratic socialism. If you can't look at any situation/person and differentiate between the good and the bad, no matter the disparity between both, you can't really call yourself objective can you? If you're not objective how can your opinion have any validity outside your own mind?

Bernie, showing he can find a what is truly good in a bad situation, is a good thing--No? Or would you rather he just paint with a broad brush like so many others have and continue to do?

[GwynnInTheHall]

Did you actually watch the entire interview? How can you NOT think it was absolutely reasonable, if you're not actively looking for something to complain about?

Edit: I understand, what you're saying about soundbites--but that's what Sanders and his supporters are fighting--Be educated, informed and if you won't there's nothing to be done.

Sanders needs to stay true to who he is, what he's standing for and explain it in an intelligent, rational manner and to Hell with what other people can make it SEEM like.

Everyone of us in here could be made to look like the worst human being on earth (or the best) if someone had taken the time to record/archive every moment of our lives.

If you're not willing to take the time to make an educated decision, vote for Trump, he's the Who gives a shit about facts and the truth candidate.

[Sour Masher]

I'm not blind, I get how to the Uneducated person a sound bite can be impactful, but Sanders isn't recommending Dictator style Socialism, he's advocating FDR/Western European style democratic socialism.

I agree that is what he wants, but he does have a history of praising, defending, and not denouncing dictator style socialism too. Less so recently, and I think perhaps that might be because he has see the reality of the corruption that state control has led these places, and his views have changed on them. I hope that to be the case, anyway. The underlying message and goals of those revolutions were similar to what Sanders wants for America, but in practice, the corrupting influence of power and the stifling of competition in industry leads to greater hardships for those you are trying to help. I do think the checks and balances in America make such concerns of us going down a similar path unfounded. I'm more worried about Trump's new GOP pushing us toward fascism than Sanders pushing us toward communism and dictator-led socialism. What Sanders has focused on recently, particularly his focus on universal health care is not such a radical thing. I agree, he is best when given time to articulate it.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I agree that is what he wants, but he does have a history of praising, defending, and not denouncing dictator style socialism too. Less so recently, and I think perhaps that might be because he has see the reality of the corruption that state control has led these places, and his views have changed on them. I hope that to be the case, anyway. The underlying message and goals of those revolutions were similar to what Sanders wants for America, but in practice, the corrupting influence of power and the stifling of competition in industry leads to greater hardships for those you are trying to help. I do think the checks and balances in America make such concerns of us going down a similar path unfounded. I'm more worried about Trump's new GOP pushing us toward fascism than Sanders pushing us toward communism and dictator-led socialism. What Sanders has focused on recently, particularly his focus on universal health care is not such a radical thing. I agree, he is best when given time to articulate it.

I agree (before FS can disagree with Ken's response)

[Ken]

Did you actually watch the entire interview? How can you NOT think it was absolutely reasonable, if you're not actively looking for something to complain about?

Edit: I understand, what you're saying about soundbites--but that's what Sanders and his supporters are fighting--Be educated, informed and if you won't there's nothing to be done.

Sanders needs to stay true to who he is, what he's standing for and explain it in an intelligent, rational manner and to Hell with what other people can make it SEEM like.

We have to separate the Utopian ideas from the practical though, right? There's sadly a difference between what you'd have to do to get elected by an intelligent electorate, vs what you have to do to get elected by the real electorate.

Banging your head against the wall by insisting on intelligence isn't going to be productive in getting you elected.

Everyone of us in here could be made to look like the worst human being on earth (or the best) if someone had taken the time to record/archive every moment of our lives.

If you're not willing to take the time to make an educated decision, vote for Trump, he's the Who gives a shit about facts and the truth candidate.

I think you hit on a key point here - some of the individuals who you need to vote for Sanders are the same ones who voted for Trump. So demanding intellectual responses (see what I did there?) may not be reasonable.

[Teenwolf]

So ITC has no response regarding Obama's praise of Cuba/Castro, which went much further than Bernie? Was it a political death sentence for Obama? No, it makes you look like an adult capable of nuanced thinking. Bernie has the highest level of trust among the candidates. He says what he truly believes and does his best to explain why he believes it, regardless of whether it's what he thinks people want to hear. His refusal to pander earns him much more support than if he apologized for these attacks. In terms of character and personal integrity, these attacks bolster Bernie by showing his guts.

[Teenwolf]

Joe Biden is not well. Yesterday, he claimed to be running for the Senate, never corrected himself. Also, claimed he worked with Deng Xiapoing on the Paris climate accord, except he left office in 1992 and died in '97.

This is a direct quote.

"I'm Joe Biden, I'm a Democratic candidate running for the United States Senate. Look me over, if you like what you see, help out.

If not, vote for the other Biden."

Man, I hope Biden loses SC and gets put out to pasture, but I'm not sure if he Sanders can fully overtake him.

Here's a video with 2 clips of Biden speaking nonsense from SC yesterday. Will the media cover these clear signals of mental decline, or are they too busy with Sanders attacks over 40 year old quotes to cover something actually relevant?

[Sour Masher]

Well, I think facing the old Sanders stuff now is important, because it WILL be an issue in the general that he is attacked on. But yeah, I really don't get why most don't seem as concerned about Biden as I think they should be. Maybe it is because he seems normal 95% of the time (normal for him, gaffes and all). But so did my grandmother at the end. And every once in awhile, between talking and acting normal and lucid, she would answer a phone that wasn't there and you'd think she was kidding and she'd look at you like you were the one that was off for not seeing the phone. That 5% of the time is disturbing and it isn't going to get better. It is going to get worse. The only questions are how fast and how long can he hide the slip ups as gaffes, or how long will fans of his overlook the slip ups as gaffes and not a sign of mental decline.

It does seem clear that many in the media prefer a centrist who has early signs of dementia than a self-described socialist who does not. But you know me--I've super afraid of both their ages being a factor at some point. I will live in fear of a heart attack or something like that if Sanders is the nominee. But that is a what if scenario that may not and I hope will not happen. If Biden is the nominee it won't just be a fear of what could happen--my fear will be of what seems like a certainty--that Biden's mind will get worse. It may get worse while facing Trump or it may get worse after he is in office, but it will happen.

[revo]

So what Bernie said 40 years ago is unimportant, but what Biden said 40 years ago should have been disqualifying?

[B-Fly]

I do think Biden is past his expiration date. I hope he drops out before Super Tuesday. If he doesn't handily win South Carolina, given his financial position, he probably would/should.

[Kevin Seitzer]

I'm really having a hard time with Bloomberg. I said earlier he was better than Trump, but I'm wondering if that's true. Might he be worse because he could actually get things done? Bloomberg just seems like an awful human being--racist, sexist, arrogant, entitled, power-drunk. Yuck.