Election 2020

[Sour Masher]

I am not sure if you really believe "that people here think her political calculation and lack of conviction is admirable" or that I am cool with Biden lying or if those are purposefully constructed straw men. Neither of those things are true. I think you mistake folks defending candidates against the alternative of Trump vs people claiming the candidates are great or flawless. I for one have been vocal about Biden's flaws. I was just saying sometimes I can't tell when he is lying on purpose vs when his memory is failing him. That is hardly me being a cheerleader for him.

[DMT]

You always have to keep in mind that TW's belief is that only Bernie can beat Trump. Everything has to be filtered through that lens in order to understand his constant lashing out against every other candidate. And those of us who fail to understand that obvious truth are to be admonished or berated until we have seen the light.

[heyelander]

Last edited by Heyelander; Today. Reason: spelling errors

Was thinking of making this my signature, but then realized I would have to make sure there were no remaining spelling errors. Too much effort.

[Sour Masher]

Was thinking of making this my signature, but then realized I would have to make sure there were no remaining spelling errors. Too much effort.

You and me both. I am such a horrible phone typer. My fingers are not big or anything. I just suck at it.

[Sour Masher]

Bloomberg got the all important demographic of 89 year old movie icons down. He converted Clint Eastwod over to his side, cuz while Eastwood approves of a lot of his policies, he doesn't approve of all the name calling and wants someone "a little more genteel" in office.

[Teenwolf]

You always have to keep in mind that TW's belief is that only Bernie can beat Trump. Everything has to be filtered through that lens in order to understand his constant lashing out against every other candidate. And those of us who fail to understand that obvious truth are to be admonished or berated until we have seen the light.

You were the one claiming Warren supported M4A before she flip-flopped. I called it. You were suckered. Big difference between our understanding of this primary. I'm following much more closely than most people, and I'm mocked for the amount of time and energy I put in.

You never attack any specific arguments or data points I raise, you simply talk about ME, posting tinfoil hat emojis and shit. So hollow. So predictable.

[Teenwolf]

I am not sure if you really believe "that people here think her political calculation and lack of conviction is admirable" or that I am cool with Biden lying or if those are purposefully constructed straw men. Neither of those things are true. I think you mistake folks defending candidates against the alternative of Trump vs people claiming the candidates are great or flawless. I for one have been vocal about Biden's flaws. I was just saying sometimes I can't tell when he is lying on purpose vs when his memory is failing him. That is hardly me being a cheerleader for him.

You are mistaken.

I was referring to TS Garp, B-Fly, and I believe yourself, though I may be mistaken, claiming that Warren was the preferred candidate a few days ago, but she couldn't win based on sexism. I think she has massive flaws, and I try and highlight those flaws. Nobody seems willing to debate her flaws, just launch smears about me personally, so I call bullshit.

As for Biden, I already gave you a bit of credit for seeing the reality of Biden's flaws. What i disagree with is his intention. It's a minor dispute, but I think his record of falsehoods dating back to the 80's is more indicative of purposeful lying than the possibility of senility, given the breadth of lies told. That first instinct to trust the candidates seems pervasive on the board, and I don't think its warranted. But no biggie.

[Sour Masher]

TW, I think the idea that anyone is mocking you based on your knowledge is also a strawman. You are clearly an incredibly knowledge poster that exposes me to many things first before I see them elsewhere. And I appreciate that--the stuff you post is one reason I come here. The only time I've seen anyone say anything negative about you is when you seem to be attacking them, which you have a habit of doing when anyone supports anyone but Bernie. I don't think anyone has questioned your political knowledge or insights. I've given you credit for calling Warren's shift from Med4All, among other things. You know your stuff.

But as I've tried to point out recently, you and some other hardcore Bernie supporters do seek things out that confirms pre-existing biases. You love Bernie and think every other candidate is a pile of garbage. You focus on all their bad points, and I get that to an extent, because these candidates need to be vetted, for sure. But in your mind it is very simple and black and white. Bernie is the man, and the rest of complete garbage. I guess that is why you get frustrated. You don't get why anyone would support piles of garbage in any way. I think in total, the candidates, while flawed, are all better than the alternative.

Yes, they are flawed and I appreciate you pointing out those flaws. But you don't give them any credit for anything, and you don't always call out anything Bernie has said or done that prove that he is human too with the same derisive passion. Where are you on the issue that Bernie advocated for super delegates to vote for the person they deemed most electable rather than going with the one that got the most votes? Will you be enraged if they do that now and push Bernie from the nomination? Would you have been mad if they did that to HRC in 2016?

[Sour Masher]

And as for me, I think I've been clear on how and why I'm conflicted. I am not a socialist like Bernie is. I think it is a wrong-headed and damaging ideology as a whole. My exception is that I believe a wealthy and prosperous society capable of providing universal health care should do that as a moral obligation to its people. I am conflicted because while I respect Bernie more than any other candidate, and like him and his intentions, I do not agree with his underlying ideology.

On the other hand, while my respect for Warren as a person has gone down because of how she has shifted her attacks toward Bernie, her underlying philosophy of enacting regulated, restricted, and morally guided capitalism is more in line with my worldview. I wish she had the level of consistency as Bernie, but she does have a track record of caring about the same things he does and I do, so despite her recent actions, I still trust she would fight for those things, and in a way that is more consistent with my belief that capitalism is a fire that needs to be tamed to work for us, but not one that needs to be extinguished. In that, my opinion is different from many academics I know.

[Sour Masher]

I should add that while I still think Warren would be a good president and after the last debate maybe even a viable one that could go toe to toe with Trump, I have also come around to being pretty pro Bernie, because I believe in the direction he is pulling, and I also believe he won't be able to pull all the way that he wants to. Hell, it will be a miracle if he can pull half way, and your and other Bernie supporters have made a strong case that he will fight the good fight harder than anyone else. I know people worried about massive middle-class tax raises, and I tell them, there is no way blue dogs who will not ever be elected supporting such things would support Bernie doing that. I tell them that if they want 75% of what Bernie wants supporting him makes sense, because it will be a miracle if he can get that much done in this country.

[Sour Masher]

And finally, I agree with B-Fly and others that they all would be better than Trump by a million miles.

Yes, even Bloomberg, who I've come to dislike more than any others and who I hope is not the nominee almost as much as you hope against every single one of them but Bernie.

[heyelander]

Act ethically and demand/expect everyone involved with the primaries does as well or have Trump in the White House for 4 more years.

Is it really ethical to ignore the harm that will be done to millions of people because you feel personally slighted?

[GwynnInTheHall]

Is it really ethical to ignore the harm that will be done to millions of people because you feel personally slighted?

Ahh the old lesser of two evils trope, Compromise your ethics so others can be spared the suffering they've brought upon themselves by ignoring theirs...Or that Those who continue to try and use that line of bullshit reasoning continue to cause because they didn't listen and compromised in the first place.

She Lost, Trump is her fault and everyone who was OK with the DNC and HRCs crap during the 2016 election. Own it and kindly get out of the way of the people trying to fix what you fucked up last time.

[DMT]

Such nonsense but good luck in your new endeavor.

[Teenwolf]

For the first time in the history of the country, among either Democrats or Republicans, Bernie Sanders is the first to win the popular vote in all 3 first primary states.