Election 2020

[nots]

Most of what I would say has been said.

The things I took away from this debate personally are:

Warren was my back up to Sanders--No Longer. She's playing dirty now. I know--that's politics, but I HATE that shit. Her, Bernie and 2 aides in a private/secret meeting and some how THIS comes out NOW? Bernie denies it, She validates it--I believe Bernie. She's making the I am Woman thing the issue rather than her platform, she's waffling on positions moving closer to center again, to try and salvage her floundering campaign (it might work) I have lost a lot of respect for her.

CNN--FUCK THOSE PEOPLE> What a set up-- to ASK Bernie if he said it and then CLARIFY it by saying--So you're saying you never said that--Bernie says Correct and then to IMMEDIATELY ask Warren so how did you feel WQHEN BERNIE SAID THAT is a fucking bunch of bullshit. They essentially called Bernie a liar and gave Warren a platform to go into an obviously prepared monologue. Again what a bunch of horsecrap. Can Al Jazerra or the BBC PLEASE host a debate so we get some unbiased moderators who'll focus on the Truth?

The rest? I'd rather see Yang up there or Gabbard.

I'm calling it now (OK I've already called it before) if the press/Warren railroads Sanders like the DNC/HRC did last time--Get ready for 4 more years of Asshat.

So if Warren is no longer your ‘back up’, who is now?

[B-Fly]

Obviously Bloomberg will stick around through super Tuesday. He's not on the ballot until super Tuesday, planning on stepping in after a Biden collapse. It seems smart to get some delegates, and some leverage at a brokered convention. But Bloomberg couldn't be dumb enough to think he can win after skipping the first 4 states (could he?). Just wants chips at the table. He's spending like a drunken fool, not just on ads, but organizers and staffers across super Tuesday and beyond as well, said to have more staff than any campaign. Sure looks the Democrats look corrupt, being willfully held hostage by a billionaire they let in through the front door.

B-Fly, aside from the political repercussions, how did Warren's leaking of these obviously politically motivated smears against Sanders make you feel about her? Does it give you any pause on her problem with authenticity? Remind you of the DNA test reveal all over again?

How does Mike Bloomberg's spending make the Democrats look corrupt? There are plenty of things to potentially hold against Mike Bloomberg and plenty of things to potentially hold against the DNC, but a mega-billionaire openly spending his own money on his own campaign isn't "corruption". Not in any sense of the word that I understand. And the DNC has no basis to block him from doing that. How is he holding anyone hostage? He's pledged his full support to the eventual nominee and has, at least thus far, given no one reason to believe that he would threaten to withhold that support if it's not his preferred nominee. If that happens, and the DNC allows the carrot of Bloomberg funding or the stick of it being withheld to drive their decisions during a brokered convention, then maybe I can see a corruption argument. But thus far Bloomberg appears to be running a transparent and above-board self-funded campaign for the Democratic Party nomination, and the voters can and should be able to consider his mega-billionaire status, his self-funding, and his profligate spending either positively or negatively when they decide whom to vote for in their primary.

As for Warren, my earlier clear preference for her had already softened to a very soft preference, based on just some bad campaign execution starting with her M4A plan and subsequently, after what to that point I thought had been a supremely strong, competent campaign. Meanwhile, Sanders' campaign execution has positively impressed me over the same period. This issue about whether Sanders did or didn't say that he didn't think the American voters would be ready to elect a woman in 2020 is so ultimately meaningless to me in both directions. At this point, I'd be very happy to support either Warren or Sanders as the nominee and would be happy to call either one of them President. I'd find a Biden nomination far less exciting in terms of the political possibilities for America, but I'd certainly support him wholeheartedly over Trump. I like Bloomberg better than Biden, as well, but I'd have to see what the earned delegate counts look like after Super Tuesday before it even makes sense to me to consider the possibility of supporting him for the nomination.

[nullnor]

if been saying Warren is out of touch since the start. she's my senator. scott brown was a good candidate but you don't really earn election in ma if you are a liberal and you are anointed to win. she talked well and was female, coakley was a bad candidate. for me it was the Harvard thing. I mean teaching is good. but I worry there's no street smarts when you have money and worked there so long. she has been there long right? i'm not gonna look it up lol. or you could say there might be an ivory tower there. I don't think she really earned her election to the senate. and she's older so carpe diem, but Kerry waited a long time before he ran for president, Kennedy too. so maybe Warren is an opportunist. we have good congressmen. our other senator is good Markey?

i'd love to have a female president. seriously tho, GE moved their headquarters from CT to MA. mostly all I heard her say was it was a good fit. she didn't say GE is a union buster, or tax evader. essentially we didn't back CT up. we didn't say yeah companies that auction their headquarters or infrastructure to the lowest bidder end up not really benefiting the community in the end sometimes. like Amazon in West Virgina where their first warehouse is. and even if you don't believe that, this is Warren, that's her forte. and GE didn't live up to their expectation and the state got some concessions back.

or it could be that I really liked Kerry and Kennedy and unfairly expect Warren to live up to them. I don't even know much. i'm biased I guess.

i'll tell you one thing, you want a candidate that can't be demonized by the right wing. I've been watching some PBS stuff recently about how much they hated Obama. and a lot of it wasn't about policy. Sanders is a tough guy but the reason you need to be healthy and young to be president is it's a demanding job physically and mentally these days. it'll be entertaining to see him fight back fox news and such, right up until he has a heart attack.

why do people want to be president anyways? that should be the first question. for some reason it's to be rich. they make a lot of money after. or maybe it's influence. Bloomberg is rich. Trump wanted to be president because he got pissed off and wanted to show people up and make some coin on the side. heh. do people actually want to run for president to make the world a better place?

[nullnor]

look at it this way, who is the most altruistic candidate? list all the democratic candidates and list what you think motivates them to be president. and then list the chances that once they become president if it goes to their head. Sanders is a pretty humble guy, right? Warren maybe not so much. maybe that's what the whole bragging about being Native American thing really means. and if you do, make sure you're right. and even after it's not like she was going to reservations to apologize or even touch base. there's no shortage of stuff you can help on. I read one Native American opinion and she said it was insensitive. and when Warren finally did because she had to, it was just another t-shirt of the week i'm guessing.

[revo]

Some latest state polls shows good news for the good guys:

Wisconsin: Trump vs. Biden	Marquette	Biden 49, Trump 45	Biden +4
Wisconsin: Trump vs. Sanders	Marquette	Sanders 47, Trump 46	Sanders +1
Wisconsin: Trump vs. Warren	Marquette	Trump 48, Warren 45	Trump +3
Wisconsin: Trump vs. Buttigieg	Marquette	Trump 46, Buttigieg 44	Trump +2
Florida: Trump vs. Biden	Florida Atlantic University	Biden 51, Trump 49	Biden +2
Florida: Trump vs. Sanders	Florida Atlantic University	Sanders 53, Trump 47	Sanders +6
Florida: Trump vs. Warren	Florida Atlantic University	Trump 49, Warren 51	Warren +2
Florida: Trump vs. Buttigieg	Florida Atlantic University	Trump 50, Buttigieg 50	Tie
Michigan: Trump vs. Biden	EPIC-MRA	Biden 50, Trump 44	Biden +6
Michigan: Trump vs. Sanders	EPIC-MRA	Sanders 50, Trump 45	Sanders +5
Michigan: Trump vs. Warren	EPIC-MRA	Warren 48, Trump 45	Warren +3
Michigan: Trump vs. Buttigieg	EPIC-MRA	Buttigieg 47, Trump 43	Buttigieg +4
Michigan: Trump vs. Bloomberg	EPIC-MRA	Bloomberg 49, Trump 42	Bloomberg +7

[nullnor]

what I need to stress to you is times have changed, it's a new age. whoever is to be president has to have thicker skin than ever before. not take the bait on stupid stuff. in the modern age, or maybe I don't know my history it started with Bill Clinton. he survived emotionally, and it got worse with Obama, the right wing criticism. not to say there isn't plenty of left wing criticism on Bush and Trump.. that's not the point. maybe that's what they mean about being a 'fighter'. which every candidate claims to be.

you want a democratic candidate that won't crawl in a shell or take the bait. Sanders and Biden are proven to be able to do that. I don't really know the others ones enough to form an opinion.

[GwynnInTheHall]

So if Warren is no longer your ‘back up’, who is now?

I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

If Bernie isn't the Nominee and it's been a fair fight--I'll choose then. If he got screwed again, well then all bets are off.

[DMT]

How does Mike Bloomberg's spending make the Democrats look corrupt? There are plenty of things to potentially hold against Mike Bloomberg and plenty of things to potentially hold against the DNC, but a mega-billionaire openly spending his own money on his own campaign isn't "corruption". Not in any sense of the word that I understand. And the DNC has no basis to block him from doing that. How is he holding anyone hostage? He's pledged his full support to the eventual nominee and has, at least thus far, given no one reason to believe that he would threaten to withhold that support if it's not his preferred nominee. If that happens, and the DNC allows the carrot of Bloomberg funding or the stick of it being withheld to drive their decisions during a brokered convention, then maybe I can see a corruption argument. But thus far Bloomberg appears to be running a transparent and above-board self-funded campaign for the Democratic Party nomination, and the voters can and should be able to consider his mega-billionaire status, his self-funding, and his profligate spending either positively or negatively when they decide whom to vote for in their primary.

As for Warren, my earlier clear preference for her had already softened to a very soft preference, based on just some bad campaign execution starting with her M4A plan and subsequently, after what to that point I thought had been a supremely strong, competent campaign. Meanwhile, Sanders' campaign execution has positively impressed me over the same period. This issue about whether Sanders did or didn't say that he didn't think the American voters would be ready to elect a woman in 2020 is so ultimately meaningless to me in both directions. At this point, I'd be very happy to support either Warren or Sanders as the nominee and would be happy to call either one of them President. I'd find a Biden nomination far less exciting in terms of the political possibilities for America, but I'd certainly support him wholeheartedly over Trump. I like Bloomberg better than Biden, as well, but I'd have to see what the earned delegate counts look like after Super Tuesday before it even makes sense to me to consider the possibility of supporting him for the nomination.

This is pretty much where I'm at now too:

1a/b. Sanders/Warren
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2. Klobuchar
3. Biden
4. Bloomberg

[Teenwolf]

Audio from the handshake refusal is out, apparently from a backup audio feed. The speculation is over. Pretty mundane, but I'll transcribe:

Warren: "I think you called me a liar on National TV."

Sanders: "What?"

EW: "I think you called me a liar on National TV."

BS: "You know, let's not do it right now. You wanna have that discussion, we'll have that discussion."

EW: "Anytime."

BS: "You called me a liar. You told me--okay. Let's not do it now."

Tom Steyer: "I don't want to get in the middle, I just want to say 'Hi, Bernie.'"

BS: "Yeah. Good."

Here's a video clip with audio at the front. The Tom Steyer awkward hello is hilarious.

[madducks]

Most of what I would say has been said.

The things I took away from this debate personally are:

Warren was my back up to Sanders--No Longer. She's playing dirty now. I know--that's politics, but I HATE that shit. Her, Bernie and 2 aides in a private/secret meeting and some how THIS comes out NOW? Bernie denies it, She validates it--I believe Bernie. She's making the I am Woman thing the issue rather than her platform, she's waffling on positions moving closer to center again, to try and salvage her floundering campaign (it might work) I have lost a lot of respect for her.

CNN--FUCK THOSE PEOPLE> What a set up-- to ASK Bernie if he said it and then CLARIFY it by saying--So you're saying you never said that--Bernie says Correct and then to IMMEDIATELY ask Warren so how did you feel WQHEN BERNIE SAID THAT is a fucking bunch of bullshit. They essentially called Bernie a liar and gave Warren a platform to go into an obviously prepared monologue. Again what a bunch of horsecrap. Can Al Jazerra or the BBC PLEASE host a debate so we get some unbiased moderators who'll focus on the Truth?

The rest? I'd rather see Yang up there or Gabbard.

I'm calling it now (OK I've already called it before) if the press/Warren railroads Sanders like the DNC/HRC did last time--Get ready for 4 more years of Asshat.

And Fox News finally got it right.

[Sour Masher]

Audio from the handshake refusal is out, apparently from a backup audio feed. The speculation is over. Pretty mundane, but I'll transcribe:

Warren: "I think you called me a liar on National TV."

Sanders: "What?"

EW: "I think you called me a liar on National TV."

BS: "You know, let's not do it right now. You wanna have that discussion, we'll have that discussion."

EW: "Anytime."

BS: "You called me a liar. You told me--okay. Let's not do it now."

Tom Steyer: "I don't want to get in the middle, I just want to say 'Hi, Bernie.'"

BS: "Yeah. Good."

Here's a video clip with audio at the front. The Tom Steyer awkward hello is hilarious.

I think it could legit be a case where this topic was discussed, Bernie said something about the challenges faced by female candidates, and Warren took it to me something more simplistic or definitive, so both are kind of right--Warren does not seem to me to be the sort of person who would make this up whole cloth, but she does seem the sort who would file it, and obviously try to use it later, justified, in her mind, because it isn't an outright lie.

But really if he said it exactly so or not is a non-issue to me. To me there is some truth to what he said, and I believe him when he says he didn't say it as she says he did. Either way, it is the leaking of it at this moment that is clearly shady. She set up this angle, had her lines ready. As many of us have said--it seems desperate, and I also believe it was not only a little dirty to do, it was a bad political play given how fervently loyal and protective of Bernie his followers are. She burned bridges over this and I doubt she actually energizes any female voters over this play. As much as I see it as a small red flag that she'd do this as morally a little shady, I see it is as an even larger red flag that she played this so poorly. This was a fumble, even as some try to spin it as being about Bernie and his biases.

I hope this blows over and Bernie loses no voters over this, and I also hope GITH and those voters like him eventually calm and realize this isn't to the level of HRC, and writing off Warren as even an ally to the platform is an over-reaction. If Bernie survives this and everything else, he will be in the position to be magnanimous, and Warren will be an important and powerful ally for his platform. If Rubio, Cruz, and the others can forgive the things Trump said that were far, far worse, to work with Trump and visa versa, these two long time allies can do the same. Even in the worst reading of this--that Warren outright lied--it isn't like she made up a rape accusation against him or something. This was a minor little jab she hoped would send some voters for her and get her back in the game . It was a bad play, and one that lowered her likability score with me, but not something that will or should end their positive working relationship. CNN, on the other hand...if I am Bernie, I might blacklist them until they apologize.

[Teenwolf]

I thought Bernie looked better from the scuffle, but 538 shows polling that hurt Sanders' likability and helped Warren's, so I'm nervous. I heard an argument that made sense. Warren had tried and failed to woo Sanders voters. So the next play was Buttigieg and Biden voters, who are much less committed. She had to do something, and the woman President play was her last card. I just hope the feud doesn't take away from Sanders' ability to win over those vulnerable Biden safety blanket voters. Good thing impeachment will keep him far away from the Iowa campaign trail for the next 2 weeks... just need to hope his campaign organization can carry the momentum without him there in person.

Sanders' fundraising has ramped up. Last 48 hrs: 200K+ donations totaling almost $4 Mil, including 25K+ new donors.

[GwynnInTheHall]

The Gloves are off now eh?

Good.

I love it When people get called on their shit.

And are exposed for their true selves.

Warren staged this whole thing. It's obvious.

I hope it blows up in her face.

[DMT]

The Gloves are off now eh?

Good.

I love it When people get called on their shit.

And are exposed for their true selves.

Warren staged this whole thing. It's obvious.

I hope it blows up in her face.

And what if she wins the nomination? Will you sit out like last time so Trump can win again?

[GwynnInTheHall]

And what if she wins the nomination? Will you sit out like last time so Trump can win again?

I didn't sit out last time.

And if the Democrats sit back and do not demand that things be ethical, which will be the case if Warren wins the nod, they deserve Trump.

Stand for someone Ethical and who has Integrity or frankly--Live in the Shit you've compromised yourself to accept in the first place.

(and I don't mean you specifically DMT)