Election 2020

[Sour Masher]

Right, but age is only a hindrance to one of them against Trump. Biden's deteriorated too much to remain viable. 2008 Biden could whoop Trump. This version of Biden would get decimated.

Seems like you've been one of the only RJ members to see this as clearly as I do.

Well, my heart wants to believe we'd elect someone in a vegetative state over Trump, but the numbers tell a different story. It is depressing, but we do need someone who will inspire voters against Trump, and Bernie does inspire many voters. He also scares many voters, and I am anxious to see which group is larger in key states--those he inspires or those he scares.

As for me, I just wish he was 10 years younger, but the country was not ready for him as a viable candidate a decade ago. They seem to be now. I just hope he stays healthy. My biggest nightmare is he or Biden can't handle the grueling election process and fall off physically or mentally once they win the primary. I'd feel a lot better about Bernie is he were a bit younger and didn't have a recent heart attack. I'm frankly amazed Bernie survived that politically. It is a testament to his appeal as a candidate. And about that, I have come around on the idea that some msm has marginalized Bernie, but one thing they didn't do that they could have was really play up his health. Maybe it was a positive side-effect of them ignoring him that they didn't. Remember how they gave all that attention to HRC having a fainting spell or whatever that was? The media hasn't gone consistently hard after Sanders' health yet, but if he manages to continue to dodge that attack in the primaries, I think it is inevitable the right will do that in the general. He would probably have to go on Fallon every other week to keep beating him at shooting basketball to stave that off. In any event, I am glad to see him in good health. I hope it keeps up.

[Teenwolf]

Andrew Yang caught lying about supporting Medicare for All. When confronted that 2 of his ads say "Medicare for All", he responds with a bunch of nonsense about moving toward universal health care over time. Yang doesn't even support a public option.

He looks really terrible here. Man, I hate this fucker. Hope he misses the Jan. debate stage. Despite being one of the most conservative idealogues in the race, his supporters would go straight to Sanders if he dropped out.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/andr...ry?id=67959257

[Kevin Seitzer]

Does Bernie mobilize latent voters?

[Sour Masher]

For the Mayor Pete haters, does this article accurately sum up your feelings? And do you agree that his rise or fall hurts or helps Warren? https://www.politico.com/amp/news/ma...ls-2020-091479

[Teenwolf]

For the Mayor Pete haters, does this article accurately sum up your feelings? And do you agree that his rise or fall hurts or helps Warren? https://www.politico.com/amp/news/ma...ls-2020-091479

Mayor Pete's strong polling in Iowa and New Hampshire is all pretty old at this point. I think he will fail to win either of the first 2, and the underperformance will sink him.

I'm now hoping that Warren collects some delegates through super Tuesday, as I'm doubtful Sanders could reach 50%+1 without a unity ticket of him and Warren. I'm also worried that Yang or Tulsi or both stay in the race too long, and siphon a not insignificant portion of progressive voters away from Sanders. But in the Iowa caucus, that 10% supporting Yang/Tulsi will largely shift to Sanders before they rally votes. He could get some big early wins, and he will absolutely need them to break the Biden electability spell.

Seeing Morning Joe say that Sanders could both win the primary and beat Trump because he saw Trump voters vulnerable to being flipped by Sanders' populism... that was surprising, given their usual dismissal of Sanders. The media 180° turn has been fascinating to witness.

[The Feral Slasher]

For the Mayor Pete haters, does this article accurately sum up your feelings? And do you agree that his rise or fall hurts or helps Warren? https://www.politico.com/amp/news/ma...ls-2020-091479

Not sure i'd classify myself as a hater, I don't have enough time disliking him to move the meter up to the "hate" level. The article covered some of the stuff I dislike. Mostly I just have close to 100% confidence that he would be a poor president who would address none of the issues I care about and would continue politics as usual by rewarding his important donors. If he is elected president he will know who he owes favors to. The guy has always wanted to be president, not so he can affect any real change, but just because he has always wanted to be president. I saw the quote below, and it sums up my feelings fairly well.

"Pete Buttigieg is an amoral careerist and opportunist bereft of an ideological core, who reverses his positions for political expediency and uses disingenuous Republican talking points to attack progressive policies. That’s why progressives don’t like him."

I'm always open to other points of view, so if someone has a plausible explanation about how is going to tackle inequality, the power of wall street and huge corporations, our bloated military and endless war, as well as the climate crisis and healthcare I'm willing to listen. Or I suppose I could go to his website and read a bunch of stuff I don't believe.

[The Feral Slasher]

Not sure i'd classify myself as a hater, I don't have enough time disliking him to move the meter up to the "hate" level. The article covered some of the stuff I dislike. Mostly I just have close to 100% confidence that he would be a poor president who would address none of the issues I care about and would continue politics as usual by rewarding his important donors. If he is elected president he will know who he owes favors to. The guy has always wanted to be president, not so he can affect any real change, but just because he has always wanted to be president. I saw the quote below, and it sums up my feelings fairly well.

"Pete Buttigieg is an amoral careerist and opportunist bereft of an ideological core, who reverses his positions for political expediency and uses disingenuous Republican talking points to attack progressive policies. That’s why progressives don’t like him."

I'm always open to other points of view, so if someone has a plausible explanation about how is going to tackle inequality, the power of wall street and huge corporations, our bloated military and endless war, as well as the climate crisis and healthcare I'm willing to listen. Or I suppose I could go to his website and read a bunch of stuff I don't believe.

Basically he is just one the major players ln the ongoing struggle to define the future direction of the democratic party. The unresolved Hilary/Bernie battle that continues

[madducks]

Not sure if this helps or hurts Biden's chances:

Democratic presidential candidate and former Vice President Joe Biden said that, if elected, he would nominate former President Barack Obama to the highest court -- if Obama would accept it.
During an event in Washington, Iowa, over the weekend, Biden was asked if he would nominate Obama, his former boss, to the Supreme Court.
"If he'd take it, yes," Biden replied.

[Teenwolf]

Not sure i'd classify myself as a hater, I don't have enough time disliking him to move the meter up to the "hate" level. The article covered some of the stuff I dislike. Mostly I just have close to 100% confidence that he would be a poor president who would address none of the issues I care about and would continue politics as usual by rewarding his important donors. If he is elected president he will know who he owes favors to. The guy has always wanted to be president, not so he can affect any real change, but just because he has always wanted to be president. I saw the quote below, and it sums up my feelings fairly well.

"Pete Buttigieg is an amoral careerist and opportunist bereft of an ideological core, who reverses his positions for political expediency and uses disingenuous Republican talking points to attack progressive policies. That’s why progressives don’t like him."

I'm always open to other points of view, so if someone has a plausible explanation about how is going to tackle inequality, the power of wall street and huge corporations, our bloated military and endless war, as well as the climate crisis and healthcare I'm willing to listen. Or I suppose I could go to his website and read a bunch of stuff I don't believe.

Excellent and concise breakdown.

I hated him from the moment he said that "Democrats get too bogged down talking about policy instead of talking about a general philosophy". Then when he predictably flipped on his health care stance, it was clear, "amoral careerist" is a perfect summation.

[Teenwolf]

Not sure if this helps or hurts Biden's chances:

Democratic presidential candidate and former Vice President Joe Biden said that, if elected, he would nominate former President Barack Obama to the highest court -- if Obama would accept it.
During an event in Washington, Iowa, over the weekend, Biden was asked if he would nominate Obama, his former boss, to the Supreme Court.
"If he'd take it, yes," Biden replied.

Biden also stated that he would consider putting a Republican up as his VP. I'm sure Biden and his Republican VP would go on to beat Trump, heal the country, and elect Obama to the Supreme Court. I wonder if he's trying to buy Obama's endorsement by dangling the SC seat... i guess it handcuffs Obama from endorsing him without it looking corrupt. Or maybe he knows no endorsement will come, so he's using Obama as an unwilling prop as much as possible.

[Sour Masher]

Excellent and concise breakdown.

I hated him from the moment he said that "Democrats get too bogged down talking about policy instead of talking about a general philosophy". Then when he predictably flipped on his health care stance, it was clear, "amoral careerist" is a perfect summation.

But do you and FS agree that he draws or gives to Warren as he ebbs and flows? I thought the conclusion of the article was interesting--that young progressives that seem particularly annoyed with him may be better served letting off the attacks, as his success comes at the expense of Warren, who is a bigger threat to Bernie.

I also thought it was interesting, because it helped me understand the level of anger young progressives have for him when his policies, by and large, are to the left of centrists like Biden and Klobaucher. I get the phony, I care about winning not issues, criticism both you and FS bring up. I can't argue against that. But I do assume he'd probably follow through on the platform he is running to get elected, which is not as progressive as Sanders or Warren, but is more so than Biden and others. That is why I didn't fully get the level of vitriol, but the article helped me see some of its roots.

[Sour Masher]

I know he doesn't have a chance, but we have not talked about Steyer at all, it seems. I do like how central to his campaign the environment is. Earlier, when I asked for thoughts on which candidate would get the most done on the environment, B-Fly named the other bilionaire--Bloomberg. I thought someone would bring up Steyer. The environment seems to be his whole deal. Any thoughts on him?

[The Feral Slasher]

But do you and FS agree that he draws or gives to Warren as he ebbs and flows? I thought the conclusion of the article was interesting--that young progressives that seem particularly annoyed with him may be better served letting off the attacks, as his success comes at the expense of Warren, who is a bigger threat to Bernie.

I also thought it was interesting, because it helped me understand the level of anger young progressives have for him when his policies, by and large, are to the left of centrists like Biden and Klobaucher. I get the phony, I care about winning not issues, criticism both you and FS bring up. I can't argue against that. But I do assume he'd probably follow through on the platform he is running to get elected, which is not as progressive as Sanders or Warren, but is more so than Biden and others. That is why I didn't fully get the level of vitriol, but the article helped me see some of its roots.

I don't really follow who's vote will go to who and so forth. Why do you assume he would follow through on his platform ? Do most politicians do that ?

[Sour Masher]

I don't really follow who's vote will go to who and so forth. Why do you assume he would follow through on his platform ? Do most politicians do that ?

Largely, don't they? That is how they stay in power, no? They all break promises, sure, but if they didn't do what they said they would to some extent, it generally hurts their reelection chances. Trump has done a lot of what he promised, aside from "build the wall."

[The Feral Slasher]

Largely, don't they? That is how they stay in power, no? They all break promises, sure, but if they didn't do what they said they would to some extent, it generally hurts their reelection chances. Trump has done a lot of what he promised, aside from "build the wall."

I disagree








But i havent really looked in detail