Election 2020

[The Feral Slasher]

I have seen no indication whatsoever that Bloomberg is planning to or would run as a 3rd party candidate in 2020. He's specifically stated that he recognized that running as a credible 3rd party candidate against Trump and the Democratic nominee would likely split the anti-Trump vote and lead to his re-election. He won't do that.

I hope not, but there has been some noise recently about the billionaires preferring Trump to Warren or someone who wants to take their money.

[Sour Masher]

I hope not, but there has been some noise recently about the billionaires preferring Trump to Warren or someone who wants to take their money.

If they think Sanders or Warren could actually enact such taxation policies, I could see that, for sure. But I don't think Bloomberg specifically goes there.

[The Feral Slasher]

If they think Sanders or Warren could actually enact such taxation policies, I could see that, for sure. But I don't think Bloomberg specifically goes there.

I cant imagine Zuck, bezos, gates, bloomberg etc are willing to risk their fortunes to defeat trump. It will come down to money in the end.

[gcstomp]

The cant imagine re: billionaire class would want to do right thing is projection. Gates as an example, he recently pointed out he has paid more in taxes than any person in history over his lifetime, and if he had to have paid double via Warren plan, he would not be especially devastated. Part of this, as I would hope anyone knows, is he has structured his wealth to be primarily a vehicle to improving lives, reducing inequality, and ending sickness. You could spend time on the Gates Foundation website and see the literal millions of lives affected in foundations efforts eradicating certain sickness and disease around world.

Gates plan is to give 99% of his money away, but simple taxation of 99% would be poisonous. Gates spends his funds way more effectively than any government could. Another, Warren Buffet, who for decades has been # 2 richest person has also pledged more than 99% of his wealth to charity, and you can go online to see how those efforts have manifested over the decades while still understanding simple govt theft of wealth would have short circuited what is infinitely more effective in Buffet hands that govt waste. Contrast this with Trump, who is notoriously self dealing to personally profit from any move. Over and over again, even Trumps charities are fronts for pocketing money to himself, and courts have to order that funds go to proper recipients, just a terrible creature.

[The Feral Slasher]

The cant imagine re: billionaire class would want to do right thing is projection. Gates as an example, he recently pointed out he has paid more in taxes than any person in history https://www.marketwatch.com/story/wa...2019-11-08over his lifetime, and if he had to have paid double via Warren plan, he would not be especially devastated. Part of this, as I would hope anyone knows, is he has structured his wealth to be primarily a vehicle to improving lives, reducing inequality, and ending sickness. You could spend time on the Gates Foundation website and see the literal millions of lives affected in foundations efforts eradicating certain sickness and disease around world.

Gates plan is to give 99% of his money away, but simple taxation of 99% would be poisonous. Gates spends his funds way more effectively than any government could. Another, Warren Buffet, who for decades has been # 2 richest person has also pledged more than 99% of his wealth to charity, and you can go online to see how those efforts have manifested over the decades while still understanding simple govt theft of wealth would have short circuited what is infinitely more effective in Buffet hands that govt waste. Contrast this with Trump, who is notoriously self dealing to personally profit from any move. Over and over again, even Trumps charities are fronts for pocketing money to himself, and courts have to order that funds go to proper recipients, just a terrible creature.

you are cherry picking the Gates quotes. And he would pay much more than double what he pays now. Gates is also different from some of the other billionaires. Amazon threatened to move parts of their business from Seattle over very small tax, how do you think Bezos is going to respond to having a percent of his wealth taken every year ?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/wa...ood-2019-11-08

Under Warren’s “ultra-millionaire tax,” households making at least $50 million would pay a 2% tax on every dollar above that amount and then a 3% tax for every dollar of net worth above $1 billion. Gates — worth an estimated $106 billion, according to Forbes — would have to pay almost $6 billion annually in addition to his other taxes, according to Andrew Ross Sorkin, the journalist and DealBook Conference host.un

Edit: Not to mention your comments about government theft of wealth support my position. Not too many billionaires are likely to want the government taking more of their money.

[Sour Masher]

The cant imagine re: billionaire class would want to do right thing is projection. Gates as an example, he recently pointed out he has paid more in taxes than any person in history over his lifetime, and if he had to have paid double via Warren plan, he would not be especially devastated. Part of this, as I would hope anyone knows, is he has structured his wealth to be primarily a vehicle to improving lives, reducing inequality, and ending sickness. You could spend time on the Gates Foundation website and see the literal millions of lives affected in foundations efforts eradicating certain sickness and disease around world.

Gates plan is to give 99% of his money away, but simple taxation of 99% would be poisonous. Gates spends his funds way more effectively than any government could. Another, Warren Buffet, who for decades has been # 2 richest person has also pledged more than 99% of his wealth to charity, and you can go online to see how those efforts have manifested over the decades while still understanding simple govt theft of wealth would have short circuited what is infinitely more effective in Buffet hands that govt waste. Contrast this with Trump, who is notoriously self dealing to personally profit from any move. Over and over again, even Trumps charities are fronts for pocketing money to himself, and courts have to order that funds go to proper recipients, just a terrible creature.

Here is an article that breaks down what Gates and other ultra wealthy are really concerned about. It isn't about the relatively tiny 2 and 3% taxes, which would put small dents in their fortunes. As you say, the more altruistic billionaires would welcome those taxes and the good they will do. I assume they know that it is good for them and society to do so. But Gates and others have a big problem with her capital gains tax that is what she says will cover Med4All. That is a massive hit, and Gates and others seem to be arguing that the nature of that tax will not only cost them billions, it will stifle growth. The article looks at how the 3% tax would have affected the Gates, Bugget, Bezos, Ellison over the last 10 years, and it turns out, it wouldn't have done much. However, her capital gains taxes, taken at the point of transaction vs the point where profit is made at sale of stocks is a massive hit to them all, and very messy. I also suspect they will figure out how to game that system so that projected revenue from it will be hard to project.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/eriksherman/2019/11/11/elizabeth-warrens-wealth-tax-isnt-the-issue-for-bill-gates-and-others-the-entire-tax-package-is/#6d799d051b9e

[gcstomp]

bezos would go to war over taxes, and part of it is bezos hates waste. amzn is a monster, eating small biz across the globe to spew out a nickel savings on every widget shipped. workers in massive amzn warehouses the size of 12 football fields each, report how they carry their orders via handheld device that directs them to pick up next item from shelf and deliver to correct destination shute, with ruthless efficiency. time per item is based on how many steps from chute, ie every second is monitored and expected to be profitable. i think of bezos as borg from star trek, eating everything, using what is efficient, destroying all else. that is 1 type of billionaire.

re: posted article, interesting. gates simple statement is at what point would govt tax or confiscation be deterence to living in country. it would be vastly beyond a mere few points higher tax rate, not just from selfish pov of wealthy would simply hyper accelerate their ever growing wealth a wee bit slower. but imo warren is nigh unelectable, but even if it came to pass, her cap gains tax would not pass.

[revo]

Wow, Atlanta Journal-Constitution has Georgia swinging for the Dems across all challengers (Georgia voted for Dopey Don by 5% in 2016). I realize the upset of 2016 still weighs heavy on everyone's minds (for Dems, it can happen again; for Repubs, polls lie), but this is amazing:

Georgia: Trump vs. Biden	Atlanta Journal-Constitution	Biden 51, Trump 43	Biden +8
Georgia: Trump vs. Warren	Atlanta Journal-Constitution	Warren 47, Trump 44	Warren +3
Georgia: Trump vs. Sanders	Atlanta Journal-Constitution	Sanders 48, Trump 44	Sanders +4
Georgia: Trump vs. Buttigieg	Atlanta Journal-Constitution	Buttigieg 46, Trump 43	Buttigieg +3
Georgia: Trump vs. Harris	Atlanta Journal-Constitution	Harris 45, Trump 44	Harris +1

[Sour Masher]

re: posted article, interesting. gates simple statement is at what point would govt tax or confiscation be deterence to living in country. it would be vastly beyond a mere few points higher tax rate, not just from selfish pov of wealthy would simply hyper accelerate their ever growing wealth a wee bit slower. but imo warren is nigh unelectable, but even if it came to pass, her cap gains tax would not pass.

I don't think she is unelectable, but I do agree, if she were elected, should wouldn't get that cap gains tax passed, which would effectively kill her Med4All plan. The much more modest 2 and 3% welath tax seems like a very good idea that the ultra wealth, on the whole, seem willing to tolerate to placate the masses. I hope it gets passed, as the funds can do a lot of good.

[The Feral Slasher]

bezos would go to war over taxes, and part of it is bezos hates waste. amzn is a monster, eating small biz across the globe to spew out a nickel savings on every widget shipped. workers in massive amzn warehouses the size of 12 football fields each, report how they carry their orders via handheld device that directs them to pick up next item from shelf and deliver to correct destination shute, with ruthless efficiency. time per item is based on how many steps from chute, ie every second is monitored and expected to be profitable. i think of bezos as borg from star trek, eating everything, using what is efficient, destroying all else. that is 1 type of billionaire.

re: posted article, interesting. gates simple statement is at what point would govt tax or confiscation be deterence to living in country. it would be vastly beyond a mere few points higher tax rate, not just from selfish pov of wealthy would simply hyper accelerate their ever growing wealth a wee bit slower. but imo warren is nigh unelectable, but even if it came to pass, her cap gains tax would not pass.

But what is proposed is not just a few points higher tax rate. It's a wealth tax, not an income tax, and over time it eats away at accumulated wealth. It would be a huge increase in taxes.

[The Feral Slasher]

But what is proposed is not just a few points higher tax rate. It's a wealth tax, not an income tax, and over time it eats away at accumulated wealth. It would be a huge increase in taxes.

*Yuuuuuuge

[Sour Masher]

But what is proposed is not just a few points higher tax rate. It's a wealth tax, not an income tax, and over time it eats away at accumulated wealth. It would be a huge increase in taxes.

Actually, if you check out the article I posted, the wealth tax on its own isn't huge at all. It is the capital gains tax that is yuge. The wealth tax, if implemented 10 years ago, according the the article, would mean Gates will be worth today about 6 billion less than he is. Not that much for a guy worth around 100 billion. But the capital gains tax would have brought him down about 50 billion over the last 10 years. Even more for Bezos. Now that is yuge.

[The Feral Slasher]

Actually, if you check out the article I posted, the wealth tax on its own isn't huge at all. It is the capital gains tax that is yuge. The wealth tax, if implemented 10 years ago, according the the article, would mean Gates will be worth today about 6 billion less than he is. Not that much for a guy worth around 100 billion. But the capital gains tax would have brought him down about 50 billion over the last 10 years. Even more for Bezos. Now that is yuge.

That is not in alignment with articles i have seen. I will post them later if i have a chance. The link i posted above had some info i believe

[The Feral Slasher]

Actually, if you check out the article I posted, the wealth tax on its own isn't huge at all. It is the capital gains tax that is yuge. The wealth tax, if implemented 10 years ago, according the the article, would mean Gates will be worth today about 6 billion less than he is. Not that much for a guy worth around 100 billion. But the capital gains tax would have brought him down about 50 billion over the last 10 years. Even more for Bezos. Now that is yuge.

I think 2 or 3 percent wealth tax on it's own would result in a much higher yearly tax than any billionaire has ever paid in there life. It may not dent their net worth in the short run, but it is a huge increase in taxes. And over time it will cost them a huge amount of money.

[Sour Masher]

I think 2 or 3 percent wealth tax on it's own would result in a much higher yearly tax than any billionaire has ever paid in there life. It may not dent their net worth in the short run, but it is a huge increase in taxes. And over time it will cost them a huge amount of money.

IDK, the guy in the article broke it down, and it doesn't make a big dent in any of the big names, because of the way their wealth continues to grow with investments. He has charts to show the math. They make more than the pay each year, so their wealth continues to grow. I'm sure it would effect those with established wealth that are not growing their money much more, but does that apply to any of the ultra rich? The captial gains tax is a much bigger deal.