Election 2020

[TranaGreg]

a few random thoughts ...

So I feel I do have to point out that we (Canada) have benefited by the American choice to invest in its military for the past century, as opposed to health care. We obviously have taken a different road, but I'm not oblivious to the fact that we benefit from both our geography (surrounded on three sides by oceans), and our proximity to the world's largest military.

Having said that, I also find it amazing that so many find it acceptable that a huge portion of your country goes without health care.

and re: nots' question, the issue isn't the quality of health care (which is better), it's about the availability of access. Sure we have free health care but if some individuals can pay to go to another country to get faster care or specialized care that isn't available here that's a valid option, as it should be. That exists in any system.

[nots]

Now you've seen it.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/28/most americans now support medicare for all and free college tuition

85% of Democrats, 52% of Repulicans, 70% overall. Poll from Reuters.

Here's another from 1 year ago, showing the same 52% support among Republicans. Poll by The Hill/HarrisX.

majority of republicans say they support medicare for all poll

August 28 poll vs yesterday poll.

[Steve 2.0]

a few random thoughts ...

So I feel I do have to point out that we (Canada) have benefited by the American choice to invest in its military for the past century, as opposed to health care. We obviously have taken a different road, but I'm not oblivious to the fact that we benefit from both our geography (surrounded on three sides by oceans), and our proximity to the world's largest military.

Having said that, I also find it amazing that so many find it acceptable that a huge portion of your country goes without health care.

.

Hell, I live here and I find it amazing as well. Hell, I live in the Bible belt....you would think that people who follow the philosophy of Jesus Christ would be out there fucking demanding that we have universal health care. I dunno....pisses me off.

[nots]

50-100 cases per year out of 12 million or so people? Seems like a pretty minor problem. They're mostly being sent to achieve better turnaround times, it's not like they would definitely die if forced to wait longer, we simply value our people highly enough to absorb the cost of that rapid treatment. It's in the article that the average treatment in Canada costs $128K in Ontario, and $600K in the US. Seems to me that costs would go down across the board as the profit motive is removed from the equation.

Sorry, but you can’t lecture us on how much better your health care system is when you have farm out things like biopsies because your system isn’t efficient enough to handle them in a timely manner.

[Teenwolf]

Sorry, but you can’t lecture us on how much better your health care system is when you have farm out things like biopsies because your system isn’t efficient enough to handle them in a timely manner.

Hahahahahaha... okay bud. Yeah, if I get sick my country sends me to the US spending an average $600K for quicker care... and you're saying that's a bad system?!

All because 53 people out of ~12 Mil needed to access US health care for quicker service? When you have millions of people going bankrupt, 10's of thousands dying to complete lack of care. What a joke.

[nots]

I love my free health care, and I think Americans who don't demand free health care are pathetic. You don't demand free health care that the entire rest of the civilized world already has? Well, sorry, that's pathetic. I thought America was the greatest country on earth? Further, if you have health care yourself and it doesn't devastate your budget, and that's why you don't support Med4All, because of your own self interest, then you are a selfish motherfucker.

I was going to let this slide and write it off as another example of your complete inability to disagree with someone without being childish but I just can’t. Is it your contention that my wife, who teaches Special Ed in a Title 1 school where the entire school is on a free lunch, in one of the poorest paying states for teachers, is a selfish motherf**ker, because she wants to keep her collectively bargained employees health plan instead of turning it over to the federal government? Is that really what you believe, or did you type before thinking again?

[Teenwolf]

I'll let Bernie explain it.

[Teenwolf]

I was going to let this slide and write it off as another example of your complete inability to disagree with someone without being childish but I just can’t. Is it your contention that my wife, who teaches Special Ed in a Title 1 school where the entire school is on a free lunch, in one of the poorest paying states for teachers, is a selfish motherf**ker, because she wants to keep her collectively bargained employees health plan instead of turning it over to the federal government? Is that really what you believe, or did you type before thinking again?

I'm not getting personal, I said that from the start.

Not being drawn into personal bullshit.

[Teenwolf]

Bernie has it written into his Med4All plan that union members receiving healthcare through their union will receive equivalent salary compensation to what the company saves, so your Republican concern trolling about union members benefits is already addressed.

[nots]

I'm not getting personal, I said that from the start.

Not being drawn into personal bullshit.

Throw the ‘selfish motherfu**er’ bomb and then say it’s not personal. Coward.

[Teenwolf]

Throw the ‘selfish motherfu**er’ bomb and then say it’s not personal. Coward.

Hahaha... you cannot respond to substance. Hilarious. You say you've "never seen anywhere near 70% support", when shown multiple links you got nothing in response. Hahaha, so predictable, yet still somehow hilarious..

Throwing around personal bullshit instead of stepping up to debate your issue sounds pretty fucking cowardly to me.

[nots]

Hahaha... you cannot respond to substance. Hilarious. You say you've "never seen anywhere near 70% support", when shown multiple links you got nothing in response. Hahaha, so predictable, yet still somehow hilarious..

Throwing around personal bullshit instead of stepping up to debate your issue sounds pretty fucking cowardly to me.

I posted a poll and article that shows support for MFA dropping. You posted a poll from August and another from last year because the plan is dying on the vine once it is explained. You have nothing to refute that. And Spoiler alert: it’s going to keep getting less popular as people learn more about it
. Also, DMT (noted voice of conservatism and spewer of Republican talking points) posted an article highlighting the cartoonish costs of implementing the system. You had nothing to say because there is nothing to say about a plan that is going to cost 34T over the next 10 years.

[gcstomp]

nots, in an effort to find common ground with you, let me say that my wife is also a teacher in a title 1 school, where the entire school is on free lunch program. Wife also runs a number of clubs, that we self fund, robotics, and pay for the kids to get to competitions to other schools that have actual budgets, etc. I find issue with the schools with the kids most in need also having the lowest operating budgets to be a broken outlook but that is another issue.

I stated, "But in general, canadians are happier with their health care system than U.S. people are with theirs, you can agree with that little last part, yes?" I took effort not to be overbearing, to ask you what I think is a fair question you can answer. US spends way more per capita for healthcare, but again, those most in need dont get the access, in fact tens of millions are without healthcare. If the system is so broken and getting worse every year, it is not a question of if, but when we will make changes, right? the debate is in what form the changes will be, but the system as is what we can call broken. What are costs of status quo, relative to costs of other ideas should be part of discussion, but baby steps, can we agree, like I asked earlier, "But in general, canadians are happier with their health care system than U.S. people are with theirs, you can agree with that little last part, yes?"

[nots]

nots, in an effort to find common ground with you, let me say that my wife is also a teacher in a title 1 school, where the entire school is on free lunch program. Wife also runs a number of clubs, that we self fund, robotics, and pay for the kids to get to competitions to other schools that have actual budgets, etc. I find issue with the schools with the kids most in need also having the lowest operating budgets to be a broken outlook but that is another issue.

I stated, "But in general, canadians are happier with their health care system than U.S. people are with theirs, you can agree with that little last part, yes?" I took effort not to be overbearing, to ask you what I think is a fair question you can answer. US spends way more per capita for healthcare, but again, those most in need dont get the access, in fact tens of millions are without healthcare. If the system is so broken and getting worse every year, it is not a question of if, but when we will make changes, right? the debate is in what form the changes will be, but the system as is what we can call broken. What are costs of status quo, relative to costs of other ideas should be part of discussion, but baby steps, can we agree, like I asked earlier, "But in general, canadians are happier with their health care system than U.S. people are with theirs, you can agree with that little last part, yes?"

I don’t have any idea what Canadiens think of their system. Perhaps they love it. Seems like a lot of them come here for treatment though.
Edit: I don’t know how accurate this is but:

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

Canada is #30 and the US is #37.

[gcstomp]

nots, that is snark. you cant present an opinion, with the tools at your fingertips, other than you have no idea? that was a gimme of a question to try to proceed with a basic framework of discussion.