Election 2020

[Gregg]

Having the title is cool because it pisses some people off, but outside that it makes no difference to me one way or the other.

You are Trump in Democrats clothing.

[Gregg]

As for Art, it's been building and it's solely about his support for Trump--I believe Trump supporters are complicit and should suffer in the manner Trump causes others to suffer. If it hits home maybe they'll stop their idiotic support. Ken and I have personal shit, we always will, as long as he stays in his lane I'll stay in mine. And he has, so I have. I won't apologize for what I said--I do wish those complicit in tis bullshit to suffer, be punished for the harm they've supported and helped actualize.

And no I don't think offering the ignorant an equal platform to share their views is what this forum is about. There are some viewpoints that have no rights.


Have a great day.

I just can't figure out why Republicans wouldn't want to share in here.

[Ken]

You are Trump in Democrats clothing.

Can you imagine truly hoping that someone gets sexually assaulted? It makes me truly sick to my stomach that there are people like that who would have that kind of hate built up that they wish someone innocent would be taken advantage of. I think of my own daughters and it's scary. And this from someone who has a personal grudge against me.

Maybe I don't need to be on this board, not worth it.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I am still unclear on what triggers you. I have seen some pretty inflammatory posts here that have gotten TW or someone else riled up and you have stepped in to be the voice of calm and reason. How come you could be the dude calling for calm and dialogue one day but then blow up so quick and overthetop the next? You seem to go from 1 to 10 pretty quick, is I guess my point.

Also, when you get personal like this, it invites responses in kind. If someone wished harm on my family, I'm gonna get baited, and I'm gonna curse and scream. If Art responded in kind, wouldn't it make you madder, and then back and forth and so on, and to what end?

What triggers me is, willful ignorance, hypocrisy or someone misrepresenting the truth or flat out lying. I can only take that shit so long and eventually feel compelled to respond. Usually It's innocuos at first but if the bullshit continues, my responses get more incendiary.

People who support bad people, bad policies or bad behavior -- deserve to be called out, if the don't respond the civil discourse, I feel stronger words are needed.

As to having someone attack me personally--If I deserve it, I'll take it--I've ALWAYS owned my shit. But it better be truthful or I'll push back. If I've earned the criticism, I take it.

But the bigger question is this--Why have a "Hot Button Forum" if you're going to qualify the behavior of those who post in it? Might as well toss it back in to Gen Pop.

If people are offended by my words, they can put me on ignore or report me to Ed. But as long as I have breath I'll speak my mind and call out BS when I see it, right now I see it in Art--I'd be on OneJay too if he were still posting. Anyone who openly supports this trash in the WH deserves a daily flogging IMO.

Off to work. Enjoy your day SM.

[Sour Masher]

Can you imagine truly hoping that someone gets sexually assaulted? It makes me truly sick to my stomach that there are people like that who would have that kind of hate built up that they wish someone innocent would be taken advantage of. I think of my own daughters and it's scary. And this from someone who has a personal grudge against me.

Maybe I don't need to be on this board, not worth it.

I really do not think GITH wants that. I hope not. He wants to put that image in the mind of Trump supporters so they are more thoughtful about what it means for them to support a man who has done that to other people's daughters.

ETA: I am not excusing the sentiment, just stating where I think it is coming from. I too get frustrated by the lack of empathy or understanding from gleeful Trump supporters. There is a contigent of his fans they really do not seem to care about the harm he causes. It can be infuriating, if you let it.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I really do not think GITH wants that. I hope not. He wants to put that image in the mind of Trump supporters so they are more thoughtful about what it means for them to support a man who has done that to other people's daughters.

ETA: I am not excusing the sentiment, just stating where I think it is coming from. I too get frustrated by the lack of empathy or understanding from gleeful Trump supporters. There is a contigent of his fans they really do not seem to care about the harm he causes. It can be infuriating, if you let it.

You are correct and I believe Ken knows that.

I also have asked Revo to remove the as moderator.

So that's one thing less for some people to complain about.

[Ken]

I really do not think GITH wants that. I hope not. He wants to put that image in the mind of Trump supporters so they are more thoughtful about what it means for them to support a man who has done that to other people's daughters.

ETA: I am not excusing the sentiment, just stating where I think it is coming from. I too get frustrated by the lack of empathy or understanding from gleeful Trump supporters. There is a contigent of his fans they really do not seem to care about the harm he causes. It can be infuriating, if you let it.

Man, this saying something brash and then backtracking on it and rationalizing it and acting like it's completely normal... it just really reminds me of someone... I can't think of who it is. Someone who has a power complex and says ridiculous things that no one in their right mind would even think, much less say, but somehow they still get away with it. Who is it? It's on the tip of my tongue.

"I won't apologize for what I said--I do wish those complicit in tis bullshit to suffer"

But you are right, it was clearly for demonstration purposes only, he didn't want anyone to truly be hurt.

Oh wait... maybe he said the opposite.

I can't keep up.

[Gregg]

I really do not think GITH wants that. I hope not. He wants to put that image in the mind of Trump supporters so they are more thoughtful about what it means for them to support a man who has done that to other people's daughters.

ETA: I am not excusing the sentiment, just stating where I think it is coming from. I too get frustrated by the lack of empathy or understanding from gleeful Trump supporters. There is a contigent of his fans they really do not seem to care about the harm he causes. It can be infuriating, if you let it.

Maybe it would be better to think before we let that garbage out.

[Gregg]

Man, this saying something brash and then backtracking on it and rationalizing it and acting like it's completely normal... it just really reminds me of someone... I can't think of who it is. Someone who has a power complex and says ridiculous things that no one in their right mind would even think, much less say, but somehow they still get away with it. Who is it? It's on the tip of my tongue.

"I won't apologize for what I said--I do wish those complicit in tis bullshit to suffer"

But you are right, it was clearly for demonstration purposes only, he didn't want anyone to truly be hurt.

Oh wait... maybe he said the opposite.

I can't keep up.

If we really believe we are the good guys and anyone who disagrees with us are the bad guys we get to say whatever we want without consequences.

[revo]

Just seeing all this now as I was on Jury Duty this morning. GITH asked me to remove him as a Mod, which I have, and which was before I saw this exchange. He was extremely out of line here. Art's comments were fine and not sure what triggered that response.

Now as far as Art's comment, clearly he is a Trump supporter, and that's OK. I post the polls because I'm an analyst and student of Political Science. He came back with a goofy answer not backed by any facts, except that Trump skated to a remarkably thin upset of the ages in 2016. If Righties like him want to take that victory for granted, I'm all for it. They're ignoring reality, which is a trait that many Trumpies seem to have. I'd love to hear a valid reason why these polls don't matter. Saying "well, they didn't in 2016" is borderline ridiculous and would get you a failing grade in PoliSci 101. Since this is a fantasy baseball board, even a noob can pick out an anomaly, but hey, maybe Art can't.

[Sour Masher]

Man, this saying something brash and then backtracking on it and rationalizing it and acting like it's completely normal... it just really reminds me of someone... I can't think of who it is. Someone who has a power complex and says ridiculous things that no one in their right mind would even think, much less say, but somehow they still get away with it. Who is it? It's on the tip of my tongue.

"I won't apologize for what I said--I do wish those complicit in tis bullshit to suffer"

But you are right, it was clearly for demonstration purposes only, he didn't want anyone to truly be hurt.

Oh wait... maybe he said the opposite.

I can't keep up.

I can't argue against the evidence. I admit I am reading beyond the words to get to the truth I think/hope is there. But yeah, he said what he said. I was just trying to express my empathy for the underlying frustration when seeing someone laugh and hoot about a man like Trump. But again, I am not defending what GITH wrote here. It is indefensible.

[Sour Masher]

Maybe it would be better to think before we let that garbage out.

Obviously. The scary bit is when thought does precede such words and they are really meant. In either case, it would be better if more folks engaged like you do, Gregg. I mean that sincerely. You seem like a good egg.

[Sour Masher]

Just seeing all this now as I was on Jury Duty this morning. GITH asked me to remove him as a Mod, which I have, and which was before I saw this exchange. He was extremely out of line here. Art's comments were fine and not sure what triggered that response.

Now as far as Art's comment, clearly he is a Trump supporter, and that's OK. I post the polls because I'm an analyst and student of Political Science. He came back with a goofy answer not backed by any facts, except that Trump skated to a remarkably thin upset of the ages in 2016. If Righties like him want to take that victory for granted, I'm all for it. They're ignoring reality, which is a trait that many Trumpies seem to have. I'd love to hear a valid reason why these polls don't matter. Saying "well, they didn't in 2016" is borderline ridiculous and would get you a failing grade in PoliSci 101. Since this is a fantasy baseball board, even a noob can pick out an anomaly, but hey, maybe Art can't.

Revo, I think your post is a good example of a post that isn't polite, but okay for this particular forum, especially on these topics. I know folks like JJ (and maybe Gregg) would point to this post as also overly "mean" and scaring off debate. But I think this type of calling out is within the bounds of what should be okay in this forum. It is challenging and a little insulting, but fair, given the heated nature of the discussion--you are pointing out Art's post has no substance and he needs to back up his ideas to be taken seriously. There is a clear distinction between this response and GITH's wishing suffering and harm on Art and his family. I wish JJ were still lurking here, so we could talk about the difference between this sort of post and GITH's, but I recognize everyone has a different line. To me, we are going to disagree in here, and it is okay to attack ideas as idiotic or unfounded. It isn't okay to wish harm on each other or family members. This should be obvious to us all.

[nots]

Just seeing all this now as I was on Jury Duty this morning. GITH asked me to remove him as a Mod, which I have, and which was before I saw this exchange. He was extremely out of line here. Art's comments were fine and not sure what triggered that response.

Now as far as Art's comment, clearly he is a Trump supporter, and that's OK. I post the polls because I'm an analyst and student of Political Science. He came back with a goofy answer not backed by any facts, except that Trump skated to a remarkably thin upset of the ages in 2016. If Righties like him want to take that victory for granted, I'm all for it. They're ignoring reality, which is a trait that many Trumpies seem to have. I'd love to hear a valid reason why these polls don't matter. Saying "well, they didn't in 2016" is borderline ridiculous and would get you a failing grade in PoliSci 101. Since this is a fantasy baseball board, even a noob can pick out an anomaly, but hey, maybe Art can't.

I enjoy looking at polls as much as anyone, however 538 has posted a half a dozen articles in the last 6 months that show how little predictive value they have at this point. Here is an example of a pretty good one:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/should-we-take-these-early-general-election-polls-seriously-no/

If Lefties want to take the position that the election is over because Trump is trailing bigly at this point, I think that would be an error in judgement.
Also, just looking at a couple of recently released Democratic primary polls: one has Biden up 13 and one has Warren up 1. That’s a pretty big gap and I think speaks to volatility of the electorate this early in the process. Polls are great and I confess to looking at all of them, but over ascribing their significance 3 months before the first primary or before we even know who will be Trump’s opponent is probably a mistake.

[Ken]

I was just trying to express my empathy for the underlying frustration when seeing someone laugh and hoot about a man like Trump.

This is a very good point. I feel the same way. I don't understand it at all. I know a lot of people who still support Trump and who are caught up in the anti-Dem rhetoric, and I just don't understand how they completely miss the problems with their own side. Complete blind spot.