Election 2020

[Sour Masher]

Umm..wouldn't he be correct in that? Everyone being the generic way of saying most.

Well, even if he is right and his own VP and party are part of this coup, he'd be wrong, because in our democracy, he is a functionary representing his party. This process will not replace him with an opposition party. He'd be replaced with a textbook conservative that aligns with most of the ideals of his professed party.

But, of course, for Trump the order of loyalty is not country, party, self. It is self.............................................. .................................................. .........................everything else tied for last.

[Gregg]

Well, even if he is right and his own VP and party are part of this coup, he'd be wrong, because in our democracy, he is a functionary representing his party. This process will not replace him with an opposition party. He'd be replaced with a textbook conservative that aligns with most of the ideals of his professed party.

But, of course, for Trump the order of loyalty is not country, party, self. It is self.............................................. .................................................. .........................everything else tied for last.

I thought this was more about the hatred of Trump than the party.

If the Donald is hated by both Dems and Repubs (not his cult followers) than the next election should be a shoe in for the Dems. For many voters Trump (at the time) was the lesser of two evils. Shouldn't this next election be that on steroids?

Why would any of the RJ Dems be in the least bit concerned that they win the Presidency in the next election?

[Sour Masher]

I thought this was more about the hatred of Trump than the party.

If the Donald is hated by both Dems and Repubs (not his cult followers) than the next election should be a shoe in for the Dems. For many voters Trump (at the time) was the lesser of two evils. Shouldn't this next election be that on steroids?

Why would any of the RJ Dems be in the least bit concerned that they win the Presidency in the next election?

Trump may be hated by some Repubs, but most don't seem to hate him at all. He has incredibly high approval ratings among Repubs and many Repubs defend and glorify his words and actions--which is the most depressing thing about his presidency to me. This latter point is also why impeachment is not a coup. he is not a dictator. He is a Republican doing what Republicans want him to do. Pence, likewise, would do the same. He cannot see that, because he does not seem himself as a representative of an ideology or party. he sees himself as just himself, so removing him from office, to him, is a coup.

[Gregg]

Trump may be hated by some Repubs, but most don't seem to hate him at all. He has incredibly high approval ratings among Repubs and many Repubs defend and glorify his words and actions--which is the most depressing thing about his presidency to me. This latter point is also why impeachment is not a coup. he is not a dictator. He is a Republican doing what Republicans want him to do. Pence, likewise, would do the same. He cannot see that, because he does not seem himself as a representative of an ideology or party. he sees himself as just himself, so removing him from office, to him, is a coup.

It is not the Republican that is or should be considered for impeachment. It is the individual that does impeachable offenses. It doesn't really matter what the individual thinks.

Democrat or Republican winning an election is not an impeachable offense.

[Kevin Seitzer]

Gregg, I don't understand what point you are trying to make or question you are trying to ask.

Impeachment isn't about hatred of Trump or hatred of the Republican party. It's about Trump and his administration breaking the law and flagrantly abusing the power of his office, and about impeachment being the only possible remedy for this, as other checks that would normally constrain presidential action have failed.

It isn't actually a coup, but Trump is claiming it's a coup, because he sees himself as equivalent to a monarch, where loyalty to the country should equate to personal loyalty to him. Revo and others are pointing out how absurd Trump's view of this is, but they are not actually proposing that a coup is taking place. They are also pointing out that a typical president would be acting as the leader of his party, but Trump is not even doing that.

[Sour Masher]

It is not the Republican that is or should be considered for impeachment. It is the individual that does impeachable offenses. It doesn't really matter what the individual thinks.

Democrat or Republican winning an election is not an impeachable offense.

Right, but we seem to be typing past each other. It is merely a Trump defending talking point, like the pastor Trump retweeted that suggested a civil war if Trump is impeached, to suggest that Trump is being impeached for winning. That is not why, despite his claims. He is being impeached for his own actions. But he is labeling that process a coup and trying to scare his supporters into seeing it that way.

[Sour Masher]

Gregg, I don't understand what point you are trying to make or question you are trying to ask.

Impeachment isn't about hatred of Trump or hatred of the Republican party. It's about Trump and his administration breaking the law and flagrantly abusing the power of his office, and about impeachment being the only possible remedy for this, as other checks that would normally constrain presidential action have failed.

It isn't actually a coup, but Trump is claiming it's a coup, because he sees himself as equivalent to a monarch, where loyalty to the country should equate to personal loyalty to him. Revo and others are pointing out how absurd Trump's view of this is, but they are not actually proposing that a coup is taking place. They are also pointing out that a typical president would be acting as the leader of his party, but Trump is not even doing that.

Thanks for clarifying this better than I have been.

[Kevin Seitzer]

Bernie Sanders had chest pain and underwent an emergency heart procedure last night. Hope all is well with him, but this likely puts a huge damper on his campaign.

[revo]

Bernie off the campaign trail because he needs heart surgery. Prayers for Bernie, I wonder if he comes back. Knowing him, he will!

[Sour Masher]

Bernie Sanders had chest pain and underwent an emergency heart procedure last night. Hope all is well with him, but this likely puts a huge damper on his campaign.

Wow, that is really depressing. I hope he pulls through this well and quickly. He is an important voice during this primary process and for national debate, and his impact on the Democratic Party over the last few years has been profound.

ETA: It appears Sanders is already on the road to recovery. I have to agree with KS that this hurts his campaign, assuming he wishes to continue it. At age 78, recovering from heart surgery, it raises flags for sure, just as Biden's slippage and corruption scrutiny has as well. I wonder if a younger candidate will rise up to challenge the three septuagenarians now. I imagine it will.

[Gregg]

Gregg, I don't understand what point you are trying to make or question you are trying to ask.

Impeachment isn't about hatred of Trump or hatred of the Republican party. It's about Trump and his administration breaking the law and flagrantly abusing the power of his office, and about impeachment being the only possible remedy for this, as other checks that would normally constrain presidential action have failed.

It isn't actually a coup, but Trump is claiming it's a coup, because he sees himself as equivalent to a monarch, where loyalty to the country should equate to personal loyalty to him. Revo and others are pointing out how absurd Trump's view of this is, but they are not actually proposing that a coup is taking place. They are also pointing out that a typical president would be acting as the leader of his party, but Trump is not even doing that.

You understand better than you realize. Reading politics on RJ it seems to me that the lines are blurred between the hatred of Trump and the Republican Party. The evolution of the threads have been pointed at the idiocy, fear and danger of an individual. Your own "They are also pointing out that a typical president would be acting as the leader of his party, but Trump is not even doing that" is a fine representative of why I ask the question.

I am asking for clarification.

If Trump actually needs impeachment for his crimes that he is guilty of then so be it. IF this is just "we lost the election and any Republican should be impeached because they are all evil" then not so much.

On to your other point. Of course there is no coup.

I think Trump is miss-using the word coup not because he thinks himself the monarch but because he does not understand the true meaning of the word. His mega ego has him speaking and acting to what he believes is correct often times without knowing the rules. He thinks he is smarter than he is and will live and die by what he believes. This would seem to be the cause for many Republicans to jump ship.

If it is half as bad as the RJ brethren make it out to be, there should be no worries about winning back the Presidency next election.

There is a history of wailing and gnashing of teeth when it comes to politics going back to our beginnings. This seems different.

[Sour Masher]

If it is half as bad as the RJ brethren make it out to be, there should be no worries about winning back the Presidency next election.

There is a history of wailing and gnashing of teeth when it comes to politics going back to our beginnings. This seems different.

It is different, because he is different from any president before him. I want him to be an anomaly--the result of a perfect storm that will never happen again. Based on his persistently high approval ratings, though, I fear DMT may be right when he says the GOP is now the party of Trump. He seems to represent what most Republicans now want in a leader, base on approval ratings. I really hope that is not the case, because this country needs a rational, honorable conservative party, but that is not what the GOP is under Trump and if he has remade the party in his image, with the approval of Republican voters, we are all in trouble. This election will tell. If Trump gets reelected, it is clear, he is where the party is now. It will not be a good day for the country or the world if it happens, but it could happen.

[TranaGreg]

You understand better than you realize. Reading politics on RJ it seems to me that the lines are blurred between the hatred of Trump and the Republican Party. The evolution of the threads have been pointed at the idiocy, fear and danger of an individual. Your own "They are also pointing out that a typical president would be acting as the leader of his party, but Trump is not even doing that" is a fine representative of why I ask the question.

I am asking for clarification.

If Trump actually needs impeachment for his crimes that he is guilty of then so be it. IF this is just "we lost the election and any Republican should be impeached because they are all evil" then not so much.
...

I think it's important to keep the two things separated.

A lot of people demonstrate hatred of Trump because he represents certain things - brutishness, self-importance, bullying, etc. Basically all the things that we teach our children are bad qualities.

But that is not the same as violating laws that would lead to impeachment. Those - as KS indicates above - are about the rule of law, and should be assessed dispassionately, with logic, not hatred.

[gcstomp]

the bernie news, really hope it is just a minor bump in the road but there is no way it is anything but a negative look for his campaign, even if he is perfectly ok in no time. but on the positive side, it is early, for fun i googled who was leading rnc candidate this time 4 years ago. this nbc/wsj poll released 6/22/15 shows top 10. notice who is not even on list? http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/jeb-bush-...-new-2016-poll
Jeb Bush 22%
Scott Walker 17%
Marco Rubio 14%
Ben Carson 11%
Mike Huckabee 9%
Rand Paul 7%
Rick Perry 5%
Ted Cruz 4%
Chris Christie 4%
Carly Fiorina 2%

[revo]

the bernie news, really hope it is just a minor bump in the road but there is no way it is anything but a negative look for his campaign, even if he is perfectly ok in no time. but on the positive side, it is early, for fun i googled who was leading rnc candidate this time 4 years ago. this nbc/wsj poll released 6/22/15 shows top 10. notice who is not even on list? http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/jeb-bush-...-new-2016-poll
Jeb Bush 22%
Scott Walker 17%
Marco Rubio 14%
Ben Carson 11%
Mike Huckabee 9%
Rand Paul 7%
Rick Perry 5%
Ted Cruz 4%
Chris Christie 4%
Carly Fiorina 2%

Is it too late to pick any of the other 15?