Election 2020

[Teenwolf]

This is nonsense.

Wow, you've got me there. Think you can provide 1 piece of evidence?

Let me re-state the premise you think is "nonsense":

That's why the Democratic establishment is against him, they dont want to end the wars or the corruption. They are supporting Warren because she wouldn't do those things. Pretty simple.

Third Way is a political influence organization, partly funded by the Koch brothers.

https://www.salon.com/2019/08/14/koc...g-to-new-book/

The outreach to Third Way was far from the Kochs’ only effort to influence Democratic politics, although it has been more customary for the billionaire brothers to back Republicans. Koch Industries was also a member of the executive council of the Democratic Leadership Council, another centrist group aimed at countering progressives inside the party. Hall, whom Third Way thanked for conceiving and designing its report, was a member of the DLC’s event committee.

Third Way has continued to criticize progressive populists in recent years, particularly those who oppose free trade policies, including Sens. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass, and Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., both of whom are 2020 presidential candidates Third Way leaders wrote an op-ed in The Wall Street Journal in 2013 attacking Warren and arguing she would take the party off a “populist cliff.” The authors claimed that “nothing would be more disastrous for Democrats” than to support Warren’s proposed economic reforms.

Earlier this year, as Warren rose in the polls of likely Democratic voters, the group changed its mind about her, arguing that Warren's policies are “manageable” because she “believes in capitalism.” The group has said it still views Sanders as an “existential threat.”

How can this be any more obvious? Koch brothers funded group calls Bernie and Warren existential threats, then after seeing her up close, they switched to endorse her. That doesn't make you think she's on their side? She's proposed a "green military" with ZERO talk of de-escalation, zero pushback against Israel's human rights abuses, zero pushback against US supporting famine in Yemen, she voted for the last military budget increase... she supports the military industrial complex, and supports health insurance companies deciding components of health care. She's beholden to corporate interests.

Yeah, she's gonna have such momentum to tackle climate change while simultaneously supporting over 50% of discretionary spending on foreign wars... gimme a break.

Now, are you going to post any kind of article or point? Your dismissiveness without evidence or an explanation is pretty lame.

[Teenwolf]

Sanders will never win because of exactly this. The fact he's Jewish is his major downfall (and yes, I'm Jewish). It'll never happen.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In major polling news, the latest Michigan poll shows Trump getting clobbered in a key battleground state. Biden, as usual, has the widest margin:

Michigan: Trump vs. Biden	EPIC-MRA	Biden 51, Trump 41	[B]Biden +10[/B]
Michigan: Trump vs. Sanders	EPIC-MRA	Sanders 48, Trump 44	Sanders +4
Michigan: Trump vs. Warren	EPIC-MRA	Warren 49, Trump 43	Warren +6
Michigan: Trump vs. Harris	EPIC-MRA	Harris 46, Trump 43	Harris +3

Right, so much more important than remembering Obama's fucking name. That couldn't tank him vs. a softie like Trump.

You take 1 speaking performance of 90 minutes without any mental mistakes, you blow it up like "see, he's fine!"... then refuse to discuss the very next day when he says "President... MY BOSS"... it's so foolish to ignore reality while digging into polls. You NEED to excite voters to TURN OUT. Biden does the opposite.

[Sour Masher]

BTW, I have stated before I think Sanders/Gabbard would be a great ticket as I believe the country will accept/vote for a woman in the VP slot, but would Warren ever consider running VP with Bernie should he get the nod?

I hope not. She is much more valuable in the Senate than as a VP. She is probably not his best pick to balance his ticket, either.

[Sour Masher]

Really? He self-labeled himself a Socialist to such a degree that he was not even running or serving as a Democrat. He's the oldest candidate and he looks old and disheveled. He's Jewish and stereotypically nebbishy in his look, style and diction. I think between Trump and the right-wing PACs and talk radio/media they would have a field day with those "soft spots". On the Jewish thing alone, much like Mitt Romney's Mormonism in 2012, I think there are a lot of people who wouldn't necessarily articulate or tell pollsters that it's a problem for them, but for whom it would potentially have a big impact in the voting booth. There's a reason why this country has never elected a non-Christian (and only once even so much as elected a Catholic) to the presidency.

I think that a President Sanders would be a very good thing if we could get him over the finish line, although not, to my mind, as good as a President Warren, but I think it's a bit nuts to suggest that he has few "soft spots" on which he would be vulnerable in a general election.

Good point on the Jewish angle. Republicans may be pro-Israel, but there is still a lot of Anti-Semiticism in the party and country as a whole. More than a lot of people think, and most concerning, some right in the Democratic base. It is definitely a concern, but I keep reminding myself that Barack Hussein Obama got elected, so the right person can overcome such biases.

[Teenwolf]

Good point on the Jewish angle. Republicans may be pro-Israel, but there is still a lot of Anti-Semiticism in the party and country as a whole. More than a lot of people think, and most concerning, some right in the Democratic base. It is definitely a concern, but I keep reminding myself that Barack Hussein Obama got elected, so the right person can overcome such biases.

This is such a brilliant point. Those scared of Bernie because of his Jewish background and democratic socialist label would do well to remember Obama's skin tone and Muslim name.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Really? He self-labeled himself a Socialist to such a degree that he was not even running or serving as a Democrat. He's the oldest candidate and he looks old and disheveled. He's Jewish and stereotypically nebbishy in his look, style and diction. I think between Trump and the right-wing PACs and talk radio/media they would have a field day with those "soft spots". On the Jewish thing alone, much like Mitt Romney's Mormonism in 2012, I think there are a lot of people who wouldn't necessarily articulate or tell pollsters that it's a problem for them, but for whom it would potentially have a big impact in the voting booth. There's a reason why this country has never elected a non-Christian (and only once even so much as elected a Catholic) to the presidency.

I think that a President Sanders would be a very good thing if we could get him over the finish line, although not, to my mind, as good as a President Warren, but I think it's a bit nuts to suggest that he has few "soft spots" on which he would be vulnerable in a general election.

I don't see the Old thing as a soft spot as Trump is only a few years younger so Trump can't attack him on that or he runs the risk of it washing back on him, same thing with Bernie being Jewish. Not a chance in hell Trump goes down that road in public, now he might back channel some ads through his super pacs, but that alone would alienate a large block voters, 25% of the Jewish vote went for Trump in 2016. Looks? Have you seen the Don lately?

As for the Elephant--Socialism. He's made it clear, it's not Socialism, but a democratic socialist, which a large part of our country is built around even though ot many critics will admit that fact. he's explained it numerous times.

Everything you've mentioned as a soft spot Bernie doesn't have to walk back--Warren's claim she was Native American enough to qualify for programs and to be considered one--was just not true and had to be walked back--she really can't attack Trump's integrity without it being thrown back in her face. Again, I am fine with her being the nominee, I just think she'll struggle more vs Trump than sanders and because of the aforementioned reasons.

[DMT]

Wow, you've got me there. Think you can provide 1 piece of evidence?

Let me re-state the premise you think is "nonsense":

That's why the Democratic establishment is against him, they dont want to end the wars or the corruption. They are supporting Warren because she wouldn't do those things. Pretty simple.

Third Way is a political influence organization, partly funded by the Koch brothers.

https://www.salon.com/2019/08/14/koc...g-to-new-book/



How can this be any more obvious? Koch brothers funded group calls Bernie and Warren existential threats, then after seeing her up close, they switched to endorse her. That doesn't make you think she's on their side? She's proposed a "green military" with ZERO talk of de-escalation, zero pushback against Israel's human rights abuses, zero pushback against US supporting famine in Yemen, she voted for the last military budget increase... she supports the military industrial complex, and supports health insurance companies deciding components of health care. She's beholden to corporate interests.

Yeah, she's gonna have such momentum to tackle climate change while simultaneously supporting over 50% of discretionary spending on foreign wars... gimme a break.

Now, are you going to post any kind of article or point? Your dismissiveness without evidence or an explanation is pretty lame.

So, because a group I've never heard of decides that Warren is preferable to Sanders means she's beholden to corporate interests? I'm not going to bother looking for some random article because there's no point. You are of the opinion that only Sanders is deserving of support (and Gabbard too because she's got a realistic shot) and have done not much other than smear the rest of the field. If Sanders wins, great, I'll be thrilled! But you and too many of his supporters act as if it's Bernie or bust and frankly, most of the rest of the Democratic coalition can't stand your aggressiveness. If you're not willing to stand behind whichever candidate wins, then you will help ensure another four years of Trump. Of course I'm not speaking directly to you as you can't vote here anyways.

[DMT]

I don't see the Old thing as a soft spot as Trump is only a few years younger so Trump can't attack him on that or he runs the risk of it washing back on him, same thing with Bernie being Jewish. Not a chance in hell Trump goes down that road in public, now he might back channel some ads through his super pacs, but that alone would alienate a large block voters, 25% of the Jewish vote went for Trump in 2016. Looks? Have you seen the Don lately?

As for the Elephant--Socialism. He's made it clear, it's not Socialism, but a democratic socialist, which a large part of our country is built around even though ot many critics will admit that fact. he's explained it numerous times.

Everything you've mentioned as a soft spot Bernie doesn't have to walk back--Warren's claim she was Native American enough to qualify for programs and to be considered one--was just not true and had to be walked back--she really can't attack Trump's integrity without it being thrown back in her face. Again, I am fine with her being the nominee, I just think she'll struggle more vs Trump than sanders and because of the aforementioned reasons.

Warren has already made amends with the Native American community and I'm sure she has a plan to address it if Trump decides to attack her with it. Warren and Sanders are 1A and 1B for me and I think either will defeat Trump, unless the Bernie or Busters decide to sit on the sides and pout again if he isn't the nominee.

[DMT]

And just FYI, the constant highlighting of every verbal gaffe Biden makes is really quite tiresome. We get it, he's old and not the greatest public speaker. Pointing out every instance changes nothing.

[Teenwolf]

And just FYI, the constant highlighting of every verbal gaffe Biden makes is really quite tiresome. We get it, he's old and not the greatest public speaker. Pointing out every instance changes nothing.

You think voters wont find it equally tiresome after a year of general election, listening to daily reports of Biden's failing mental capacity? I'm trying to show you that media is ignoring it, and if they continue to cover and make excuses to get Biden over the line in the primaries, he's a surefire loser in the general. Only Sour Masher gets it, so far.

President... my boss...

Yeah, I'm sure Trump will get tired of making fun of Biden's senility. That couldn't possibly tank turnout.

[Teenwolf]

So, because a group I've never heard of decides that Warren is preferable to Sanders means she's beholden to corporate interests? I'm not going to bother looking for some random article because there's no point. You are of the opinion that only Sanders is deserving of support (and Gabbard too because she's got a realistic shot) and have done not much other than smear the rest of the field. If Sanders wins, great, I'll be thrilled! But you and too many of his supporters act as if it's Bernie or bust and frankly, most of the rest of the Democratic coalition can't stand your aggressiveness. If you're not willing to stand behind whichever candidate wins, then you will help ensure another four years of Trump. Of course I'm not speaking directly to you as you can't vote here anyways.

About 6 months ago, you got very upset at me bringing up several huge red flags about Kamala Harris and you told me that they were baseless smears. A few months later, Tulsi Gabbard beought up those exact criticisms in the 2nd debate, and she absolutely destroyed her on those points. Harris had zero response. She's since completely tanked in polling, down into the 5% also-ran tier.

So if you think the links to Third Way, or whatever other factual issues that I raise are just baseless smears, remember, I've already predicted which issues would take out Harris. I'm not nearly as uninformed as you like to paint me.

[B-Fly]

Good point on the Jewish angle. Republicans may be pro-Israel, but there is still a lot of Anti-Semiticism in the party and country as a whole. More than a lot of people think, and most concerning, some right in the Democratic base. It is definitely a concern, but I keep reminding myself that Barack Hussein Obama got elected, so the right person can overcome such biases.

Yes about the skin color and the name, but Barack Obama was an avowed Christian who was outstanding at packing inspirational grace notes for Christians into his oratory. I believe Sanders being Jewish by ethno-cultural self-identification and essentially agnostic bordering on atheist in his oratory will have far more trouble with Christian voters. I hope I'm wrong.

[The Feral Slasher]

Yes about the skin color and the name, but Barack Obama was an avowed Christian who was outstanding at packing inspirational grace notes for Christians into his oratory. I believe Sanders being Jewish by ethno-cultural self-identification and essentially agnostic bordering on atheist in his oratory will have far more trouble with Christian voters. I hope I'm wrong.

Interesting comment. How many of these Christian voters are undecided or are they all voting Republican anyway ? I suppose it a close election a relatively few voters could really matter.

[Teenwolf]

Does Bernie not differentiate himself from the generic Jewish candidate in the view of Christians by showing his willingness to go after Israeli leadership?

[GwynnInTheHall]

Warren has already made amends with the Native American community and I'm sure she has a plan to address it if Trump decides to attack her with it. Warren and Sanders are 1A and 1B for me and I think either will defeat Trump, unless the Bernie or Busters decide to sit on the sides and pout again if he isn't the nominee.

I think the Berners are good with Warren, not so much Biden but I don't see him crossing the finish line. Warren essentially lied about being a native American. Now I get it, my sister claimed something similar and had a native American scholarship but she was under the impression that we /she was at least one quarter NA, when in actuality we're less than an eighth. Warren did not handle this well enough to keep trump from throwing out this as a lie somewhat canceling the lefts biggest card in the general.

Again, I like her and will support her, but I worry.