Election 2020

[Judge Jude]

these two nights of debates are really, really good.

I realize that we're all busy and who has 6 free hours, but I'm telling you, it's worth a shot. I haven't quite gotten to the end of tonight, but the core issues are being debated - and whatever one thinks of some of CNN's opening questions, they mostly got the hell out of the way of the candidates.

it's a little like 2016 on the other side, actually - if not for one glaring exception.

if you have a candidate or two that most intrigues you, maybe pick that night and FF through to their screen time and reactions.

[revo]

Biden botched his end speech, saying Trump would have four more years or eight more years, and then botched his own web URL, which he said to go to joe30330, but after I searched for it, it turns out that actually was to text ‘Joe’ to 30330. I’m sure his staff was slapping their forehead over this. Not gawd awful, but obvious age-induced gaffes.

[Sour Masher]

Still can't get fully on the Harris train for some reason. IDK. She potentially fills an ideological niche that I think I fit in between Sanders on the left and Biden in the middle, but I continue to not be all that impressed so far. I don't think either front runner tonight did as well as the two last night. Castro had another good showing. Not sure why he isn't getting any traction.

Still like Warren the best of the bunch, on paper, at least. I continue to worry about how she would do against Trump. I've come around on the idea that Sanders, with his simple, straight forward ideas and speech patterns coupled with his passion and unwavering demeanor would be a good match on a debate stage with Trump. While I prefer Warren's more wonky and nuanced positions to Sanders' on some things, I think Sanders is a much better match for Trump and his antics than Warren would be.

[revo]

Still can't get fully on the Harris train for some reason. IDK. She potentially fills an ideological niche that I think I fit in between Sanders on the left and Biden in the middle, but I continue to not be all that impressed so far. I don't think either front runner tonight did as well as the two last night. Castro had another good showing. Not sure why he isn't getting any traction.

Still like Warren the best of the bunch, on paper, at least. I continue to worry about how she would do against Trump. I've come around on the idea that Sanders, with his simple, straight forward ideas and speech patterns coupled with his passion and unwavering demeanor would be a good match on a debate stage with Trump. While I prefer Warren's more wonky and nuanced positions to Sanders' on some things, I think Sanders is a much better match for Trump and his antics than Warren would be.

It’s like Matt Taibbi wrote in his article for RS, she would have 1,000 Pocahontas tweets leveled at her head. She’s a loser as soon as she wins the nomination.

[DMT]

It’s like Matt Taibbi wrote in his article for RS, she would have 1,000 Pocahontas tweets leveled at her head. She’s a loser as soon as she wins the nomination.

And Sanders is going to have 1,000 Socialist tweets aimed at his head. She is a fighter and 1000x smarter. Remember when everyone said she was DOA?

[The Feral Slasher]

Solidarity? Maybe on Bizarro J World.

I'm expecting to see photos of a smiling Ted Cruz yucking it up with Donald Trump in the near future. The only possible explanation.

[Teenwolf]

And Sanders is going to have 1,000 Socialist tweets aimed at his head. She is a fighter and 1000x smarter. Remember when everyone said she was DOA?

It's exactly like Buttigieg said in debate night 1. Worrying about "being called Socialists" is nonsensical. Trump is going to rail against whoever the nominee is as a socialist, even if it's someone like Biden, so why should we feel an obligation to push someone that Republicans will find inoffensive instead of one that will actually drive the Democratic base to turn out and win?

I believe both progressive platforms have a great chance of defeating Trump at this point in time, and I think if Harris or Biden were the nominee they would lose. Hoping the public starts to see it my way.

[TranaGreg]

Calling Trump racist is just a way of being superficial and avoiding his real message, which is solidarity.

Whaat? He couldn't give two shits about cities/states/people that didn't vote for him. He's the most divisive president in American history. Solidarity? Maybe on Bizarro J World.

He meant solidarity of his base, of course.

[Teenwolf]

This video from a Biden debate watch party at a bar in Detroit is unbelievable. One attendee said there were 12-16 people, most of who left the bar within a half hour. All of the media are saying today "Biden got attacked, but he survived." The CNN spin supporting Biden's performance was sickening. I think regardless of whatever the bullshit polls do in the next few weeks, it's become crystal clear that Biden would lose.

A few weeks ago, Biden was found calling in union members as seat-fillers in a small room that fit less than 200 people. Now this video shows another glimpse at the lack of enthusiasm. Biden will get destroyed if he wins the nomination. Thank fuck there's 10 more debates to show what a loser he is.

[Teenwolf]

He meant solidarity of his base, of course.

But by that definition, white supremacist organizations value solidarity, as they bring people together. So yeah, it's an idiotic notion by any definition of "solidarity".

[In the Corn]

Trump is going to rail against whoever the nominee is as a socialist, even if it's someone like Biden, so why should we feel an obligation to push someone that Republicans will find inoffensive instead of one that will actually drive the Democratic base to turn out and win?

If Trump doesn't drive the Democratic base to vote for whoever the candidate is, then the Democrats deserve 4 more years of Trump. Instead the Democrats should be thinking what is going to drive the middle to vote for the Democrat.

[Teenwolf]

If Trump doesn't drive the Democratic base to vote for whoever the candidate is, then the Democrats deserve 4 more years of Trump. Instead the Democrats should be thinking what is going to drive the middle to vote for the Democrat.

I think the performances of the moderate candidates to this point should make you reconsider whether YOU are actually "the middle". I believe the middle is much further left than you think. Public opinion polling supports most of Bernie's so-called extreme positions.

[Teenwolf]

Probably my favourite highlight of the night was Tulsi Gabbard's absolute smackdown of Kamala Harris. It was done with such deftness, no stuttering. And then! When CNN tried to tie Tulsi to Biden because of her recent defense but she didn't take the bait and went back to beating up on Harris... pure gold.

This is a great piece on it. The guy in the video is close with Tulsi's team and endorses her, but he's dead on that she killed it here.

[Sour Masher]

I think the performances of the moderate candidates to this point should make you reconsider whether YOU are actually "the middle". I believe the middle is much further left than you think. Public opinion polling supports most of Bernie's so-called extreme positions.

When you ask poll questions about whether folks want what Bernie and Warren want, it makes sense people would say yes, because in a perfect world, who wouldn't want those things? But when you ask about what people will give up to get those things, specifically how much they'd pay for them, the numbers change. I think there is still a lot of worry/concern about how much these plans are going to cost among most Americans, even ones, like me, who want some of these things.

I may be particularly sensitive to taxation living in the most taxed area in the country. We pay the highest property taxes in relation to home values in the entire nation in Binghamton, NY. There are homes here that cost 150k for which owners are paying 10k+ in property tax. That is on top of state taxes, of course. I have lived in other places that offer essentially the same services with far less taxes, and still don't fully understand how places like Florida get by with no state tax and lower property taxes. So I get the wariness of government waste.

That is the primary reason I prefer Warren to Sanders, because with Sanders, I see a guy who sees what is right and wrong, and his worldview is real simple. This is right, let us do it. The end. With Warren, I see a person who wants pretty much the same things, but thinks through the logistics and costs of such things and tries to come up with the most expedient ways to get there, even if she has to be a tad flexible in doing that. Some see that tiny bit of flexibility as an ideological impurity. I see it as a modicum of practicality that I would hope would make her more palatable to those who may support some of these progressive ideas in theory, but have serious reservations about costs and impact on middle class families.

[TranaGreg]

When you ask poll questions about whether folks want what Bernie and Warren want, it makes sense people would say yes, because in a perfect world, who wouldn't want those things? But when you ask about what people will give up to get those things, specifically how much they'd pay for them, the numbers change. I think there is still a lot of worry/concern about how much these plans are going to cost among most Americans, even ones, like me, who want some of these things.

I may be particularly sensitive to taxation living in the most taxed area in the country. We pay the highest property taxes in relation to home values in the entire nation in Binghamton, NY. There are homes here that cost 150k for which owners are paying 10k+ in property tax. That is on top of state taxes, of course. I have lived in other places that offer essentially the same services with far less taxes, and still don't fully understand how places like Florida get by with no state tax and lower property taxes. So I get the wariness of government waste.

That is the primary reason I prefer Warren to Sanders, because with Sanders, I see a guy who sees what is right and wrong, and his worldview is real simple. This is right, let us do it. The end. With Warren, I see a person who wants pretty much the same things, but thinks through the logistics and costs of such things and tries to come up with the most expedient ways to get there, even if she has to be a tad flexible in doing that. Some see that tiny bit of flexibility as an ideological impurity. I see it as a modicum of practicality that I would hope would make her more palatable to those who may support some of these progressive ideas in theory, but have serious reservations about costs and impact on middle class families.

This is a good observation. This is strictly anecdotal, but my observations from spending a lot of time with family & friends in the states are that this is one area where Americans & Canadians differ significantly. Simply put, American on the whole (including those who self identify as democrats) are much more sensitive to tax increases relative to us north of the border.

Regardless of the merits of that (social contract and all that ...) ... but from my experience there definitely is a difference.