There is no proof that God exists

[Fresno Bob]

what proof do u have for this ?

Thor #1-227

[Gregg]

the same way I can parse the "true" from the "false" when reading anything. for example, Timothy 2:12

And yet some would still insist that it was good idea to use a woman as the first to testify to the empty tomb in the plot to cover up stealing the body. Why would they do that?

[baldgriff]

I think both sides are talking past each other.

Fresno is asking for proof that God exists.
Gregg - you are coming at this from your perspective that Jesus is God. However, that is not proof of God. That is more along the lines of "how God manifested himself". For sake of this argument using standard apologetics wont suffice as Fresno is not asking for you to prove that Jesus is God. You first have to establish that there is a God before you can define that God as Jesus.

[B-Fly]

I think both sides are talking past each other.

Fresno is asking for proof that God exists.
Gregg - you are coming at this from your perspective that Jesus is God. However, that is not proof of God. That is more along the lines of "how God manifested himself". For sake of this argument using standard apologetics wont suffice as Fresno is not asking for you to prove that Jesus is God. You first have to establish that there is a God before you can define that God as Jesus.

[Sour Masher]

I think both sides are talking past each other.

Fresno is asking for proof that God exists.
Gregg - you are coming at this from your perspective that Jesus is God. However, that is not proof of God. That is more along the lines of "how God manifested himself". For sake of this argument using standard apologetics wont suffice as Fresno is not asking for you to prove that Jesus is God. You first have to establish that there is a God before you can define that God as Jesus.

Well put.

[Gregg]

I think both sides are talking past each other.

Fresno is asking for proof that God exists.
Gregg - you are coming at this from your perspective that Jesus is God. However, that is not proof of God. That is more along the lines of "how God manifested himself". For sake of this argument using standard apologetics wont suffice as Fresno is not asking for you to prove that Jesus is God. You first have to establish that there is a God before you can define that God as Jesus.

Jesus is the proof for the existence of God.

The Old Testament wasn't much to me until I became an adult Christian (after leaving the faith). Filtered through Jesus a lot of the OT makes much more sense to me.

The disciples turning away from Jesus and then in a a few days be willing to die for Him is not so much apologetics as worldly witness in action. Were they credible witnesses? I think they were.

[baldgriff]

Thanks guys - I finally was able to put my thoughts on this conversation down in a manner that made sense....

[DMT]

Jesus is the proof for the existence of God.

The Old Testament wasn't much to me until I became an adult Christian (after leaving the faith). Filtered through Jesus a lot of the OT makes much more sense to me.

The disciples turning away from Jesus and then in a a few days be willing to die for Him is not so much apologetics as worldly witness in action. Were they credible witnesses? I believe they were.

Fixed

[DMT]

https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/10/16/health/stephen-hawking-final-book-intl/index.html

There is no God -- that's the conclusion of the celebrated physicist Stephen Hawking, whose final book is published Tuesday.

[baldgriff]

Jesus is the proof for the existence of God.

The Old Testament wasn't much to me until I became an adult Christian (after leaving the faith). Filtered through Jesus a lot of the OT makes much more sense to me.

The disciples turning away from Jesus and then in a a few days be willing to die for Him is not so much apologetics as worldly witness in action. Were they credible witnesses? I think they were.

Gregg -
But they are not proof that God exists - specifically. Their actions show that they believed Jesus to be God. Im playing devil's advocate here --- just because they believed it doesnt mean that he was God or that God actually exists. He was charismatic and got people to follow him, which is not necessarily proof that God exists. Again, their witness establishes that they believe Jesus was the manifestation of the Messiah.

You need something else to establish that God, the creator, actually exists.

The actions of the disciples and their conversion, the use of women as the primary witness to the resurrection are both standard apologetics arguments which can be used to support Christ as God.

However, Fresno is asking for something a bit less specific - while asking for specific examples that God exists. He is not looking for the Christian manifestation - he is looking for proof that that God exists.

[B-Fly]

Jesus is the proof for the existence of God.

The Old Testament wasn't much to me until I became an adult Christian (after leaving the faith). Filtered through Jesus a lot of the OT makes much more sense to me.

The disciples turning away from Jesus and then in a a few days be willing to die for Him is not so much apologetics as worldly witness in action. Were they credible witnesses? I think they were.

I disagree that Jesus is proof of the existence of G-d.

Even if we accept, for sake of argument, that Jesus' resurrection is true because it was corroborated by credible witnesses (so hard for me to say that, but...), it doesn't change the fact that there is no real world proof of the existence an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and omnibenevolent G-d, let alone an active/responsive one, rather than just a name/concept we can assign to an unknown presumed "original catalyst" for the Big Bang and everything that succeeded it.

[Sour Masher]

Gregg -
But they are not proof that God exists - specifically. Their actions show that they believed Jesus to be God. Im playing devil's advocate here --- just because they believed it doesnt mean that he was God or that God actually exists. He was charismatic and got people to follow him, which is not necessarily proof that God exists. Again, their witness establishes that they believe Jesus was the manifestation of the Messiah.

You need something else to establish that God, the creator, actually exists.

The actions of the disciples and their conversion, the use of women as the primary witness to the resurrection are both standard apologetics arguments which can be used to support Christ as God.

However, Fresno is asking for something a bit less specific - while asking for specific examples that God exists. He is not looking for the Christian manifestation - he is looking for proof that that God exists.

You are on a role, BG! Again, very well put. I'll only add that even if you believe the disciples witnessed his resurrection, even that would not be proof he was God. What if he were a space alien, or some magical being of great power that was still not the creator of the universe, but merely a creature in it? Resurrection on its own is not proof that he was God.

[baldgriff]

Christians generally come at this from the point of view that there is a God. Jesus then is how God manifested himself, personally to the world.

When someone says there is no proof of God, they are coming at the topic from a different lens - one that, if your intent is to "convert" someone to Christianity requires proof of a different sort. First to establish that God exists, secondly that Jesus is the embodiment of God in human form.

Its a weird conversation - and to some degree discounts the aspect of faith, which is an important component of one's belief system.

[Steve 2.0]

You are on a role, BG! Again, very well put. I'll only add that even if you believe the disciples witnessed his resurrection, even that would not be proof he was God. What if he were a space alien, or some magical being of great power that was still not the creator of the universe, but merely a creature in it? Resurrection on its own is not proof that he was God.

So....Penn & Teller aren't gods?

[Sour Masher]

So....Penn & Teller aren't gods?

No, only Penn. Teller is just Metatron, God's mouthpiece. If we heard God speak, our heads would explode.