Entering into the world of hand guns.

[Gregg]

when I was 10 years old I went to "Dirtbike, Shooting, and Horseback Riding Camp", which in hindsight is madness. The only real rule the stoned 16 year old counselors put on us was "No Mixing!", don't ride the dirtbikes near the horses, no shooting from horseback or from the dirtbikes, etc. As a little kid, we only got to shoot the .22 rifles

Sounds like a little slice of Heaven for 10 year old Gregg.

My very close ranking would have been Dirtbike, horseback and then shooting.

[Teenwolf]

Thanks for the reply. Just curious on the #1 murder rate; how are the murders being accomplished?

I couldn't give an accurate estimate of how the murders are being committed. I dont read the local paper enough. Regardless, with only 100K people, being the murder capital of Canada in any given year is your standard "small sample size" coming into play. I think it only takes 5 or 6 murders per 100K to be #1. Not to say it isnt dangerous. I believe a large part of the murder rate is connected to high rates of poverty in certain neighborhoods, and it feels a lot less safe than I used to feel in Vancouver.

Maybe I would pursue a weapon for personal defense, if I lived in a more poverty/crime stricken part of town. In that case, I would seek out an extendable baton. Those things can do wicked damage. I'm lucky enough to live in a safe neighborhood and afford a car for my wife and truck for myself. If we had to compromise our safety it would be based on lack of financial ability.

Would you consider small non-ammunition based weapons/personal defense training as an alternative to carrying a gun if you lived in a place with less handguns/gun crime? I see your logic being that you dont want to show up with a knife to a gun fight, and you're in a place where there is much greater likelihood of encountering this scenario. I grant you that I dont know how I would feel if our places were reversed. I only state my adamant disagreement with gun ownership for defense from my Canadian upbringing and perspective. Cheers.

[mjl]

https://www.tbnewswatch.com/local-news/thunder-bay-leads-canadian-cities-in-murder-rate-for-second-year-in-a-row-993035

"When you look at the severity index, it’s really based on a number of factors of how the seriousness of the incident is weighted," she (Acting Thunder Bay Police Service chief, Sylvie Hauth) said. "The fact that we are just barely 112,000 population and that we have seven or eight homicides, the numbers very quickly add up in terms of putting us in those top positions."

According to Hauth, guns have not been used in any violent crimes in the city in recent memory, though a number of firearms have been seized by police.

Gun violence continued on an upward trend nationally as well, with more than 7,700 victims of violent crime where a firearm was present.

The US is about 10x population of Canada; in 2016 there were about 1.25 million violent crimes in the US. It's pretty hard to find good data about firearm use, no thanks to Congress, but the last I can find that seems directly comparable is

According to the National Crime Victimization Survey, 467,321 persons were victims of a crime committed with a firearm in 2011.

A somewhat relevant stat is that from 2014 to 2016, the number of homicides not using guns went up 2% and the number using guns went up 30%, and guns were used in about 75% of all homicides in 2016. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...lity-data-show)

another data point: Thunder Bay, the murder capital of Canada, had 7 homicides and a population of 112k in 2017; US cities with a comparable murder rate in 2015 were Tucson, San Francisco and San Antonio. St. Louis, the murder capital of the US, had about 10x the homicide rate.

in summary, Thunder Bay is less like Thunderdome and more like Wichita.

[Teenwolf]

https://www.tbnewswatch.com/local-ne...n-a-row-993035







The US is about 10x population of Canada; in 2016 there were about 1.25 million violent crimes in the US. It's pretty hard to find good data about firearm use, no thanks to Congress, but the last I can find that seems directly comparable is

A somewhat relevant stat is that from 2014 to 2016, the number of homicides not using guns went up 2% and the number using guns went up 30%, and guns were used in about 75% of all homicides in 2016. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...lity-data-show)

another data point: Thunder Bay, the murder capital of Canada, had 7 homicides and a population of 112k in 2017; US cities with a comparable murder rate in 2015 were Tucson, San Francisco and San Antonio. St. Louis, the murder capital of the US, had about 10x the homicide rate.

in summary, Thunder Bay is less like Thunderdome and more like Wichita.

Thanks for digging through my local paper, that's awesome! You should search the term "Thunder Bay hate crimes" to see how we're consistently topping that list.

Great to see that there aren't many shootings (there was 1 shooting recently and it was pretty big news). I think this lowers the chances of mortality in violent instances, leading to your claim that Thunder Bay isnt a dangerous place. I looked up the violent crimes rates, and TBay is well above the National average in sheer volume of violent crimes (14% above in 2017). The Crime Severity Index shows a similarly higher CSI than national average, but lower CSI than some big cities. I wonder if the CSI correlates with the lack of guns used in violent crimes in TBay vs. guns being used in other places?

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4758617

[Fresno Bob]

Maybe I would pursue a weapon for personal defense, if I lived in a more poverty/crime stricken part of town. In that case, I would seek out an extendable baton. Those things can do wicked damage. I'm lucky enough to live in a safe neighborhood and afford a car for my wife and truck for myself. If we had to compromise our safety it would be based on lack of financial ability.
Cheers.

I finally got my brass knuckles for Xmas last year, my ask for next year is one of those south korean extendable police batons, the kind Jennifer Lopez uses to great effect in "Out of Sight"

[Gregg]

I finally got my brass knuckles for Xmas last year, my ask for next year is one of those south korean extendable police batons, the kind Jennifer Lopez uses to great effect in "Out of Sight"

Great clip. Always fun when the bad guy gets it.

Now do you believe that scene would be played out like that in real life? If the first strike does not put the man down a man that size would/could get angry and kill her.

As far as batons there are a lot to choose from. Here is a link:

https://www.thehomesecuritysuperstore.com/self-defense-self-defense-batons-c=63#

[Gregg]

My wife and I fired our first hand gun this afternoon. We had a free gun rental and hour of lane time. We chose a Smith and Wesson M&P EZ Shield 380.

Ear and eye protection were provided. The instructor did an excellent job of teaching us about loading, correct stance, hand position, aiming and firing. We were shooting at 7 yards. My wife's first shot was in the bulls eye. She proceeded to shoot 3 more in the bulls eye and a couple just outside of it.

My grouping was low and left of the bulls eye. It was fairly tight but off. When we were done and looking at our shot patterns it was suggested that I was probably pulling the trigger rather than squeezing it. This would make sense to me as I am experienced in shot gun shooting and that is how you pull the trigger. Next time out I will concentrate on the trigger squeeze.

The indoor shots felt like we were getting hit in the chest by a base drum. The recoil was medium but not off putting. The smell of gunpowder was pleasing.

There is a power in firing a gun that is exhilarating and a bit scary. I can tell you that with just a great safety class and a one time firing I would not feel comfortable carrying a loaded gun anywhere. My wife and I do not understand how the underworld carries without practice.

It was enough fun that we became members of the shooting range. I have no idea if this will lead to conceal and carry. As of now I am kind of leaning towards no.

[gcstomp]

"My wife and I do not understand how the underworld carries without practice"
Criminals get plenty of practice. To simulate real world conditions, they train with molasses on hands to simulate how sticky and hard to handle weapon is to operate with blood everywhere. Strobe lights training and handfuls of marbles on a warehouse floor to compensate for police sirens, flashlights, and general mayhem. Hell, just try to get home on payday safely if you live in Caracas, Venezuela navigating hordes fueled by desperation is a more intense and dangerous training than about any US police has over a 30 year career.

[Gregg]

"My wife and I do not understand how the underworld carries without practice"
Criminals get plenty of practice. To simulate real world conditions, they train with molasses on hands to simulate how sticky and hard to handle weapon is to operate with blood everywhere. Strobe lights training and handfuls of marbles on a warehouse floor to compensate for police sirens, flashlights, and general mayhem. Hell, just try to get home on payday safely if you live in Caracas, Venezuela navigating hordes fueled by desperation is a more intense and dangerous training than about any US police has over a 30 year career.

I had no idea.

Does this "training" happen in the US as well? Most of the gang stuff that I read about in Illinois seems untrained and ignorant (within the scope of the crime).

[gcstomp]

majority of mainland contiguous 48 state training is mostly video games. alaska is different in you get big game surrounding your house so its like jumanji to get to mailbox. hawaii are hard core islanders who no one messes with so they do a lot of dancing. i myself am a hardcore gaming gangster, though my experience ends somewhere shortly after atari 2600/ commodore 64 and pacman fever.

[Gregg]

Wait...you are comparing video gaming to shooting real guns?

[nots]

hawaii are hard core islanders who no one messes with so they do a lot of dancing.

What?

[gcstomp]

my humor is like a lead balloon. i thought the jumanji and pacific islanders comments were clear as jokes but nm, carry on.

[Gregg]

My wife and I fired our first hand gun this afternoon. We had a free gun rental and hour of lane time. We chose a Smith and Wesson M&P EZ Shield 380.

Ear and eye protection were provided. The instructor did an excellent job of teaching us about loading, correct stance, hand position, aiming and firing. We were shooting at 7 yards. My wife's first shot was in the bulls eye. She proceeded to shoot 3 more in the bulls eye and a couple just outside of it.

My grouping was low and left of the bulls eye. It was fairly tight but off. When we were done and looking at our shot patterns it was suggested that I was probably pulling the trigger rather than squeezing it. This would make sense to me as I am experienced in shot gun shooting and that is how you pull the trigger. Next time out I will concentrate on the trigger squeeze.

The indoor shots felt like we were getting hit in the chest by a base drum. The recoil was medium but not off putting. The smell of gunpowder was pleasing.

There is a power in firing a gun that is exhilarating and a bit scary. I can tell you that with just a great safety class and a one time firing I would not feel comfortable carrying a loaded gun anywhere. My wife and I do not understand how the underworld carries without practice.

It was enough fun that we became members of the shooting range. I have no idea if this will lead to conceal and carry. As of now I am kind of leaning towards no.

We went shooting for our second time Sunday afternoon.

This time we tried a revolver. It was a Smith and Wesson .357 with a 4 inch barrel. We used the compatible and less powerful .38 special ammo.

It kicked much harder than the EZ that we used the first time. So much so that after 5 shots my wife went back and got the S&W EZ that we used the first time. I shot about 20 rounds through it. Enough to know this would not be my gun of choice for target shooting. I think the gun is a little small to absorb the recoil. If this was the only choice in guns, my wife would be done shooting.

Once again my wife out shot me. I was better than last time out but not as good as she was.

We had fun.

[Gregg]

Yesterday we attended the first day of a two day class to qualify for our conceal and carry permit in Illinois. It was fun and very enlightening.

There are a lot of places that even if you have the conceal and carry you cannot carry. At these places you can leave your firearm in your car concealed.

Never draw your gun unless you are going to fire it. A lot of the class was role playing. The lessons were mostly how to get away. Turns out my wife and I are pretty good shots, but I saw no situation in which it would have been wise to draw the gun. The closest was an armed robbery in a restaurant. He had his gun pointed at us and any movement would have resulted in getting shot. I did the right thing and handed over my wallet. If he was farther away I would have drawn it and kept it under the table. What has changed for me is that I will consciously look to sit further away from the entrance whether or not I decide to carry. As it is right now, I am undecided, even to the extent of the car.

It will be an additional $50 each for my wife and I to get finger printed. It will be an additional $150.00 for each of us to actually get the conceal and carry. This has to be renewed every 5 years at the $150.00 cost. In addition the conceal and carry is attached to your license. If you get pulled over the officer already knows you have a conceal and carry. You should keep your hands on the wheel and out of courtesy tell the officer you are licensed and are carrying. I just found out about this, not sure how I feel about it. On the one hand it is good on the other it is a bit scary.

Today is range day. We have to shoot 30 rounds each, but 50 is recommended. We will do 50.

With the dummy lazer gun it takes me. .52 seconds to get my gun from my side to the first shot. I fired 18 shots in 6 seconds into the picture of the killer who was attacking me. All body shots with no chance of hitting bystanders. That said it is me being ready and waiting for the start buzzer. No duress and no pulling from a waste band holster. I would imagine this would take an additional 1.50 seconds to get into position.

We don't need the conceal and carry to shoot or keep guns in the home. I do not know where this will lead. It is actually very different than my preconceived ideas going into this.

Either way today should be fun.