Democratic Socialist Takeover

[Sour Masher]

There are a lot of valid points in this NYT editorial (link at bottom) - but the summary paragraph is

There is no way the Democratic Party would jettison the party’s social justice wing nor should it. The record does suggest, however, that Democrats need to do a better job of managing the conflict between the centrist corpus of the party and both of its activist left wings — one cultural, one economic — if it expects to fully capitalize on the opportunities that President Trump and his allies have bestowed on them.

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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/02/o...ol-left-region

I mean, this is obviously the crux of the issue--can this be done? If so, I think the Dems supplant Trump. If not, they won't, which depresses me, because they haven't yet figured out how to do this, and I don't see any candidate out there right now that clearly can do this. But we will see, I guess.

[onejayhawk]

There are a lot of valid points in this NYT editorial (link at bottom) - but the summary paragraph is

There is no way the Democratic Party would jettison the party’s social justice wing nor should it. The record does suggest, however, that Democrats need to do a better job of managing the conflict between the centrist corpus of the party and both of its activist left wings — one cultural, one economic — if it expects to fully capitalize on the opportunities that President Trump and his allies have bestowed on them.

Every word of that mirrors the Republican party. They have the Tea Party wing and the religious wing. Democrats have the environmental nuts and the GOP has the gun nuts. And so on.

What is interesting is when two fringe elements, say environmental and gun rights, get together. Those two might meet up at a Ducks Unlimited fundraiser. Both favor secure wetlands for their own reasons.

J

[baldgriff]

Every word of that mirrors the Republican party. They have the Tea Party wing and the religious wing. Democrats have the environmental nuts and the GOP has the gun nuts. And so on.

What is interesting is when two fringe elements, say environmental and gun rights, get together. Those two might meet up at a Ducks Unlimited fundraiser. Both favor secure wetlands for their own reasons.

J

Yeah but one will be pissed when Duck is served for the main course.

[cardboardbox]

Just in case folks didn't notice (I'm not even sure that baldgriff noticed) - this figure isn't income taxes; it includes all taxes - property taxes, sales taxes paid, etc. That makes it kind of hard to compare to anywhere else, as I doubt anyone knows what their all-in tax percent would be (I didn't).

For a useful comparison here are the federal tax rates compared for that same salary:

Canada:
15% on the first $46,605 of taxable income, +
20.5% on the next $46,603 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over 46,605 up to $93,208)

US:
10% up to $9,325
15% $9,326 to $37,950
25% $37,951 to $91,900

The province taxes are likely where there is a discrepancy relative to your state taxes, but as Teenwolf said, by & large we're pretty united on our willingness to pay this to get the health care system that we have.

yikes, you are just one place above the US and thats definitely not due to quality of care or access

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/michael-bolen/canadian-health-care-ranking_b_5503898.html

[TranaGreg]

yikes, you are just one place above the US and thats definitely not due to quality of care or access ...

Good post, I completely agree, we should all seriously look at modeling our health care systems based on the best systems - the UK, Switzerland, and Sweden. Canada has a lot of room for improvement.

That was your point, wasn't it?

edit: it's actually a pretty interesting report, even tho it's from 2014; thanks for posting. A few snippets from the Exec Summary:

The United States health care system is the most expensive in the world, but this report and prior editions consistently show the U.S. underperforms relative to other countries on most dimensions of performance. Among the 11 nations studied in this report—Australia, Canada, France, Germany, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, and the United States—the U.S. ranks last, as it did in the 2010, 2007, 2006, and 2004 editions of Mirror, Mirror.

Most troubling, the U.S. fails to achieve better health outcomes than the other countries, and as shown in the earlier editions, the U.S. is last or near last on dimensions of access, efficiency, and equity. In this edition of Mirror, Mirror, the United Kingdom ranks first, followed closely by Switzerland (Exhibit ES-1)

The most notable way the U.S. differs from other industrialized countries is the absence of universal health insurance coverage. Other nations ensure the accessibility of care through universal health systems and through better ties between patients and the physician practices that serve as their medical homes. The Affordable Care Act is increasing the number of Americans with coverage and improving access to care, though the data in this report are from years prior to the full implementation of the law. Thus, it is not surprising that the U.S. underperforms on measures of access and equity between populations with above average and below-average incomes.

[DMT]

Shameful and inexcusable, all because of greed and corruption.

[Judge Jude]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/ele...idates-n896616
"The Obamas are dipping a toe back into politics.

Barack and Michelle Obama on Wednesday released a list of nearly 100 Democratic candidates in more than a dozen states whom they are endorsing in this year’s crucial midterm elections, with plans to campaign for some of them this fall....

"Some notable absences include Texas Senate candidate Beto O’Rourke and New York congressional candidate Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, but Obama’s team says this is just a “first wave” and that more endorsements will follow."

[cardboardbox]

Good post, I completely agree, we should all seriously look at modeling our health care systems based on the best systems - the UK, Switzerland, and Sweden. Canada has a lot of room for improvement.

That was your point, wasn't it?

I was actually just curious how good the Canadian system was since u and teen speak so highly of it.

I know first hand about the high cost in the US as my health ins premiums skyrocketed starting in 2010 or 2011 and coverage got worse. Including employer, we pay over $12k/yr for 2 adults, 2 little kids, its an HMO so thats annoying. $25 copay for PCP, $45 specialist, many cheap drugs we dont have to pay copays for. Pretty much any test outside of a physical we have to pay until meeting 1250 out of pocket max and after that we dont pay anything for anything. So thats the sucky part... OTOH, I can see a doctor quickly, get a test ASAP, get surgery really quick, and my insurance never denies anything we need.

[TranaGreg]

I was actually just curious how good the Canadian system was since u and teen speak so highly of it.

I know first hand about the high cost in the US as my health ins premiums skyrocketed starting in 2010 or 2011 and coverage got worse. Including employer, we pay over $12k/yr for 2 adults, 2 little kids, its an HMO so thats annoying. $25 copay for PCP, $45 specialist, many cheap drugs we dont have to pay copays for. Pretty much any test outside of a physical we have to pay until meeting 1250 out of pocket max and after that we dont pay anything for anything. So thats the sucky part... OTOH, I can see a doctor quickly, get a test ASAP, get surgery really quick, and my insurance never denies anything we need.

That's part of it for sure, our personal experiences; I can talk about some awesome personal experiences, and some not-so awesome.

Another part is the overall impact on a community when a significant population doesn't have access to health care.

[Teenwolf]

That's part of it for sure, our personal experiences; I can talk about some awesome personal experiences, and some not-so awesome.

Another part is the overall impact on a community when a significant population doesn't have access to health care.

Even for such an anti-Nationalist lefty as myself, it's a pretty societally unifying piece of Canadian identity to know that you have the exact same health care plan that I do, or any of the most vulnerable people in our country do.

[DJBeasties]

Thought of this thread when I saw this tweet.

8-3-2018 9-40-12 AM.jpg

[DJBeasties]

Thought of this thread when I saw this tweet.

Scott Adams

@ScottAdamsSays

Today I had the honor of meeting your favorite president. I already feel sorry for whoever runs against him in 2020. @POTUS @realDonaldTrump


8-3-2018 9-40-12 AM.jpg

[swampdragon]

I feared that he was the Dilbert guy - he isn't

So who is Scott Adams (in this case)?

[DJBeasties]

I feared that he was the Dilbert guy - he isn't

So who is Scott Adams (in this case)?

Oh it is the Scott Adams of Dilbert fame.

[swampdragon]

Oh it is the Scott Adams of Dilbert fame.

oh - yuck