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  • Originally posted by revo View Post
    So according to this logic, consumers should now look to Hyundai or Nissan for their autos, instead of Ford/Chevy/GMC/etc.? After all, these car companies will get walloped with the new Mexican tariffs, but Nissan and Hyundai should emerge unscathed.
    not many consumers get wrapped up in tariff philosophy. if they are inclined toward one car, but a tariff adds $2K to the price, they're liable to buy something about as good that is tariff-free, or hold off on buying a car, or even buy a nice pre-owned one because the price jump made that wiser option occur to them - in which case they wind up ahead of the game (unless they are aroused by new-car smell).

    what most of them WON'T do is pay an extra $2,000 for the same product. I assume this is not controversial.

    there are other problems with this tariff scheme, as I have mentioned repeatedly. but "consumer forced to spend $850 extra because well, they have to stick with the program" is not one of them.
    finished 10th in this 37th yr in 11-team-only NL 5x5
    own picks 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 in April 2022 1st-rd farmhand draft
    won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84

    SP SGray 16, TWalker 10, AWood 10, Price 3, KH Kim 2, Corbin 10
    RP Bednar 10, Bender 10, Graterol 2
    C Stallings 2, Casali 1
    1B Votto 10, 3B ERios 2, 1B Zimmerman 2, 2S Chisholm 5, 2B Hoerner 5, 2B Solano 2, 2B LGarcia 10, SS Gregorius 17
    OF Cain 14, Bader 1, Daza 1

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Judge Jude View Post
      not many consumers get wrapped up in tariff philosophy. if they are inclined toward one car, but a tariff adds $2K to the price, they're liable to buy something about as good that is tariff-free, or hold off on buying a car, or even buy a nice pre-owned one because the price jump made that wiser option occur to them - in which case they wind up ahead of the game (unless they are aroused by new-car smell).

      what most of them WON'T do is pay an extra $2,000 for the same product. I assume this is not controversial.

      there are other problems with this tariff scheme, as I have mentioned repeatedly. but "consumer forced to spend $850 extra because well, they have to stick with the program" is not one of them.
      Hmmmm.....if low cost goods are the goods that come from China, and now those goods will cost more, where will one find similar goods at that same low price? Have you been to a Wal-Mart recently? How bout a Home Depot or Lowe’s? Because JJ, I have to say, you probably haven’t based on your reasoning here.

      And I also think you’re incredibly simplifying how supply chains work. What about cell phones? A family of four may buy 4 new phones every year or two. If they go up 20% as expected, do we all just start buying Korean phones?

      So your answer is we all have to change what we’re doing because of one incredibly dumb individual in the White House? Really?

      Comment


      • 1. China does not have a monopoly on all goods.
        2. Consumers can choose to not buy these more expensive goods, due to tariffs.
        3. They can choose to buy less expensive (and possibly lower quality) goods instead, and maybe not even notice the difference.

        Disclaimer: revo is more of a finance expert than I am, and a straight shooter as well.
        and I don't support the Trump tariffs.

        I can't explain why he doesn't quite disagree with my narrow point - and it seems like he is not quite conceding it, either. it's a pimple on... well, let's not go there.
        finished 10th in this 37th yr in 11-team-only NL 5x5
        own picks 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 in April 2022 1st-rd farmhand draft
        won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84

        SP SGray 16, TWalker 10, AWood 10, Price 3, KH Kim 2, Corbin 10
        RP Bednar 10, Bender 10, Graterol 2
        C Stallings 2, Casali 1
        1B Votto 10, 3B ERios 2, 1B Zimmerman 2, 2S Chisholm 5, 2B Hoerner 5, 2B Solano 2, 2B LGarcia 10, SS Gregorius 17
        OF Cain 14, Bader 1, Daza 1

        Comment


        • What I’m saying is, go take a tour through a Home Depot or Wal-Mart. What you’ll find is that the majority of products there are Made in China, I hate to say. I would guess nearly all of the electronics are imported, and in HD’s case, nearly all of the tools. That’s how they grew, through cheaply made goods that the average consumer could afford. Maybe these producers/suppliers have Korean or Vietnamese factories not targeted by tariffs, but my guess is they don’t.

          Comment


          • all I know is my refrigerator broke and I'm not buying a new one until the alleged "trade war" is over.
            ---------------------------------------------
            Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
            ---------------------------------------------
            The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
            George Orwell, 1984

            Comment


            • Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View Post
              all I know is my refrigerator broke and I'm not buying a new one until the alleged "trade war" is over.

              Comment


              • It’s tariff-mania!

                "WASHINGTON — The Trump administration announced on Friday that it was stripping India of a special status that exempts billions of dollars of its products from American tariffs, part of a deepening clash over India’s protections for its market.

                The White House said that it would terminate India’s preferential market access to the United States as of June 5. The notice claimed that India had not given the United States “equitable and reasonable access to its markets.”

                Comment


                • Originally posted by revo View Post
                  It’s tariff-mania!

                  "WASHINGTON — The Trump administration announced on Friday that it was stripping India of a special status that exempts billions of dollars of its products from American tariffs, part of a deepening clash over India’s protections for its market.

                  The White House said that it would terminate India’s preferential market access to the United States as of June 5. The notice claimed that India had not given the United States “equitable and reasonable access to its markets.”
                  I'm ok with this, because I feel the policy was well thought out
                  ---------------------------------------------
                  Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
                  ---------------------------------------------
                  The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
                  George Orwell, 1984

                  Comment


                  • I don't buy any of this, because it seems way too risky.

                    and I am not a supporter.

                    but if it somehow works, some here will have no social media to inform them of that fact.

                    and if it doesn't work, some here...

                    and THAT'S why they call me Judge Jude
                    finished 10th in this 37th yr in 11-team-only NL 5x5
                    own picks 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 in April 2022 1st-rd farmhand draft
                    won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84

                    SP SGray 16, TWalker 10, AWood 10, Price 3, KH Kim 2, Corbin 10
                    RP Bednar 10, Bender 10, Graterol 2
                    C Stallings 2, Casali 1
                    1B Votto 10, 3B ERios 2, 1B Zimmerman 2, 2S Chisholm 5, 2B Hoerner 5, 2B Solano 2, 2B LGarcia 10, SS Gregorius 17
                    OF Cain 14, Bader 1, Daza 1

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View Post
                      I'm ok with this, because I feel the policy was well thought out
                      I would say that Trump probably ate some Indian food, got nauseous and decided to make this move. But, there's no way he would eat Indian food.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by revo View Post
                        What I’m saying is, go take a tour through a Home Depot or Wal-Mart. What you’ll find is that the majority of products there are Made in China, I hate to say. I would guess nearly all of the electronics are imported, and in HD’s case, nearly all of the tools. That’s how they grew, through cheaply made goods that the average consumer could afford. Maybe these producers/suppliers have Korean or Vietnamese factories not targeted by tariffs, but my guess is they don’t.
                        my point is that most consumers will not simply pay whatever markup is imposed on them by manufacturers after a tariff, which is the overwhelming narrative out there. if you can afford to do so and decide to do so, that's great. but most will find alternatives - even if less appealing. as I've said, there are all sorts of problems with these tariffs, but "consumer will have to spend an extra $850 a year" is dopey. they don't and they won't.
                        finished 10th in this 37th yr in 11-team-only NL 5x5
                        own picks 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 in April 2022 1st-rd farmhand draft
                        won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84

                        SP SGray 16, TWalker 10, AWood 10, Price 3, KH Kim 2, Corbin 10
                        RP Bednar 10, Bender 10, Graterol 2
                        C Stallings 2, Casali 1
                        1B Votto 10, 3B ERios 2, 1B Zimmerman 2, 2S Chisholm 5, 2B Hoerner 5, 2B Solano 2, 2B LGarcia 10, SS Gregorius 17
                        OF Cain 14, Bader 1, Daza 1

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Judge Jude View Post
                          my point is that most consumers will not simply pay whatever markup is imposed on them by manufacturers after a tariff, which is the overwhelming narrative out there. if you can afford to do so and decide to do so, that's great. but most will find alternatives - even if less appealing. as I've said, there are all sorts of problems with these tariffs, but "consumer will have to spend an extra $850 a year" is dopey. they don't and they won't.
                          Here's why this may be incorrect: these numbers were not just pulled from the sky, but taken from the actual damage done by the 2018 10% tariffs imposed on China. The Federal Bank of NY did a study which determined these 2018 tariffs imposed an annual additional cost of $419 per family. With the tariffs now having increased to 25%, they now estimate the damage will be $850 per family. This, of course, does not include the tariffs on Mexico and now India & Turkey (both of which may not make much of an impact), but that means these numbers may be low.

                          Their analysis takes into account "deadweight" costs, which means rather than importers paying tariffs, they look to other suppliers who may be more expensive than their previous supplier but less than the expense with tariffs included. So in other words, they believe importers are ALREADY buying goods from the cheapest options available -- which your reasoning does not take into account.

                          Not sure how you can disagree, unless you're disagreeing with their logic.

                          Comment


                          • this

                            "So in other words, they believe importers are ALREADY buying goods from the cheapest options available -- which your reasoning does not take into account."

                            has nothing to do with this:

                            ""consumers will have to spend an extra $850 a year" is dopey. they don't and they won't."

                            I honestly am stumped as to why you seem to believe consumers do not adjust their buying habits if prices rise. they absolutely do.
                            finished 10th in this 37th yr in 11-team-only NL 5x5
                            own picks 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 in April 2022 1st-rd farmhand draft
                            won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84

                            SP SGray 16, TWalker 10, AWood 10, Price 3, KH Kim 2, Corbin 10
                            RP Bednar 10, Bender 10, Graterol 2
                            C Stallings 2, Casali 1
                            1B Votto 10, 3B ERios 2, 1B Zimmerman 2, 2S Chisholm 5, 2B Hoerner 5, 2B Solano 2, 2B LGarcia 10, SS Gregorius 17
                            OF Cain 14, Bader 1, Daza 1

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Judge Jude View Post
                              this

                              "So in other words, they believe importers are ALREADY buying goods from the cheapest options available -- which your reasoning does not take into account."

                              has nothing to do with this:

                              ""consumers will have to spend an extra $850 a year" is dopey. they don't and they won't."

                              I honestly am stumped as to why you seem to believe consumers do not adjust their buying habits if prices rise. they absolutely do.
                              And I'm honestly stumped that you don't see that they didn't in 2018.

                              Do you have any proof of your statement? Or is it just conjecture? Because I just showed you proof that consumers did NOT adjust their buying habits in 2018, that they just paid the higher prices.

                              Should I show you how much in additional costs Americans paid on washing machines, tarriffed by Trump in Jan 2018? Using your logic, they should have forgone buying them -- but they didn't. Consumers just absorbed the increase, to the tune of an additional $100 per unit, all caused by tariffs. Giddy/greedy manufacturers also jacked up the price of dryers by the same amount, and they WEREN'T hit by tariffs, because hey, why not? You're gonna buy a dryer if you're buying a washing machine! Yet American consumers still bought them. I'm stumped that you don't believe this.

                              Comment

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