Economic, taxes, and tariffs discussion

[DMT]

revo said obama created this economy.

I missed that and I'd be surprised if he actually claimed that.

[cardboardbox]

I missed that and I'd be surprised if he actually claimed that.

So you can post away about the rosy economy Obama created, and I'll post about the cluelessness of our current president and how he's affecting the very people who voted for him. Deal?

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[revo]

As opposed to the deep thinkers who pat Obama on the back for the increase in the market, but blame Trump as soon as there is a correction.

As former Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers said today, they neither congratulated themselves when the market rose, nor took the blame when it fell. Trump uses the market as some bizarre barometer of his economic prowess, and doesn’t realize that a healthy economy and a booming stock market don’t always go hand in hand. What a businessman!

You want to take the credit, be prepared to take the criticism. But nope, it’s always blame blame blame. Do you disagree? And please, no whataboutism. Just a straight answer for once.

[revo]

.....

Oh puleeze, that was said in jest to get you worked up.

Trump deserves at least 10% credit. Maybe 20%.

[nots]

As former Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers said today, they neither congratulated themselves when the market rose, nor took the blame when it fell. Trump uses the market as some bizarre barometer of his economic prowess, and doesn’t realize that a healthy economy and a booming stock market don’t always go hand in hand. What a businessman!

You want to take the credit, be prepared to take the criticism. But nope, it’s always blame blame blame. Do you disagree? And please, no whataboutism. Just a straight answer for once.

Summers et al didn’t have to take credit— they had an adoring media fawning over them giving them credit for every positive bit of economic news. Seemed like they were quick to blame Bush as well when things didn’t improve as quickly as they’d hoped.
As to your silly question: yes, I think Trump takes credit for everything he possibly can and shifts blame whenever he can as well. This is hardly a revelation, but I hope it makes you feel better.
Now, please let us know if Trump ‘attacks’ Lady Gaga or Boys 2 Men. I know his harsh takedown of T Swift was traumatic for you.

[revo]

Summers et al didn’t have to take credit— they had an adoring media fawning over them giving them credit for every positive bit of economic news. Seemed like they were quick to blame Bush as well when things didn’t improve as quickly as they’d hoped.
As to your silly question: yes, I think Trump takes credit for everything he possibly can and shifts blame whenever he can as well. This is hardly a revelation, but I hope it makes you feel better.
Now, please let us know if Trump ‘attacks’ Lady Gaga or Boys 2 Men. I know his harsh takedown of T Swift was traumatic for you.

LOL, you just can’t stop with the whataboutism!

[nots]

LOL, you just can’t stop with the whataboutism!

LOL, you brought up Summers not me.

[revo]

LOL, you brought up Summers not me.

See, this is the problem today. I brought up Summers because he was being interviewed yesterday on CNBC as a Former Treasury Secretary and Director of the NEC, and he shared his experiences of working with the Fed. Not because he worked for Clinton & Obama. But you're using partisanship to try to instantly discredit him. I'm sure if they interviewed Hank Paulson or John Snow, they would have said the same. Why? Because they didn't pull this amateur hour crap like Trump is doing either.

Heck, even Jim Cramer, who is a Trump bulldog, said Trump openly and aggressively attacking the Fed to stoke his own ego is a major error.

[cardboardbox]

Heck, even Jim Cramer, who is a Trump bulldog, said Trump openly and aggressively attacking the Fed to stoke his own ego is a major error.

you left out the part where Cramer said the Fed is making a mistake by raising rates so aggressively.

[revo]

you left out the part where Cramer said the Fed is making a mistake by raising rates so aggressively.

You think this is "aggressive"? You realize the Fed has already told us when and where they will raise rates over the next 2 years. And if you look at this chart, I'd like for you to point out when you think rates were aggressively raised, and how today's environment compares.

The real issue is that rates were zero for so long, we're not used to a rising rate environment.

Screenshot (9).jpg

[cardboardbox]

The real issue is that rates were zero for so long, we're not used to a rising rate environment.

this is exactly what I mean by aggressive. Relative to the past 10 years, this is extremely aggressive. Are other countries raising interest rates this aggressively? Or are they still hanging around 0%? Maybe 4 rate hikes in a year is too much for us right now?

[nots]

See, this is the problem today. I brought up Summers because he was being interviewed yesterday on CNBC as a Former Treasury Secretary and Director of the NEC, and he shared his experiences of working with the Fed. Not because he worked for Clinton & Obama. But you're using partisanship to try to instantly discredit him. I'm sure if they interviewed Hank Paulson or John Snow, they would have said the same. Why? Because they didn't pull this amateur hour crap like Trump is doing either.

Heck, even Jim Cramer, who is a Trump bulldog, said Trump openly and aggressively attacking the Fed to stoke his own ego is a major error.

Sigh. No, I am not discrediting Summers at all. He did a credible job at the Fed.I am discrediting your statement that he ( or the Administration)didn’t take credit when the markets rose or fell. I said he didn’t have to, the media did it for him. Can’t really debate if you keep moving the goal posts.
As for your chart, I agree completely. The rates were kept artificially low for a long time to try and stimulate a recovery and then a sluggish economy. Now that they are going to rise, the market is likely to stall or correct. Inflation is likely to rise some. And the partisans will blame Trump.
Again, the President is but one part of the economic puzzle. He frequently (IMO) gets too much credit when things are good and too much blame when they aren’t. However, I do point out the hypocrisy of folks talking about how good Obama did with the economy, while ignoring what Trump has done or , even more pathetically, celebrating every bit of bad news. The good news for those celebrating is that a correction is coming those folks will have ample opportunity to pin it on Trump.

[revo]

this is exactly what I mean by aggressive. Relative to the past 10 years, this is extremely aggressive. Are other countries raising interest rates this aggressively? Or are they still hanging around 0%? Maybe 4 rate hikes in a year is too much for us right now?

The ECB currently has 0% interest and is expected to keep it as such until at least next year, but their GDP is only around 0.5% and they have almost 9% unemployment.

When the GDP climbs in the US, the Fed is bound to follow along, and they even told us as much a couple of years in advance. This should not have been a surprise to Trump. And for him to call the Fed loco or crazy is flat-out ridiculous. All Americans need to do now is lose faith in the Fed because of some egotistical maniac.

Sigh. No, I am not discrediting Summers at all. He did a credible job at the Fed.I am discrediting your statement that he ( or the Administration)didn’t take credit when the markets rose or fell. I said he didn’t have to, the media did it for him. Can’t really debate if you keep moving the goal posts.
As for your chart, I agree completely. The rates were kept artificially low for a long time to try and stimulate a recovery and then a sluggish economy. Now that they are going to rise, the market is likely to stall or correct. Inflation is likely to rise some. And the partisans will blame Trump.
Again, the President is but one part of the economic puzzle. He frequently (IMO) gets too much credit when things are good and too much blame when they aren’t. However, I do point out the hypocrisy of folks talking about how good Obama did with the economy, while ignoring what Trump has done or , even more pathetically, celebrating every bit of bad news. The good news for those celebrating is that a correction is coming those folks will have ample opportunity to pin it on Trump.

And what we're trying to say, to no avail apparently, is that if you choose to take the credit (which few presidents did) for a stock market rise, be prepared to take the negativity.

If he had not said a peep about constantly going to check your 401ks, do you think anyone would be coming down on him now?

[cardboardbox]

If he had not said a peep about constantly going to check your 401ks, do you think anyone would be coming down on him now?

I think there's nothing Trump could do or not do that you wouldnt criticize him for.

[revo]

I think there's nothing Trump could do or not do that you wouldnt criticize him for.

This is amusing coming from perhaps the biggest Obama basher on this board. And yes, I just reviewed a bunch of your old Obama posts to prove this.