#___ingwhileblack

[Teenwolf]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...site-1.4844667

I found this story really disturbing. The guy was shot in the back with a 3.5 inch nail from a nailgun. It punctured his lung and he spent 4 days in hospital. The attitude of the employer acting as if the allegations are ludicrous is particularly disturbing. Quebec is known for their disdain for assimilation.

[Gregg]

I'm genuinely confused by the question. Can you re-phrase? Thanks.

Sure. You have had some life experiences with bad policemen. Those make you angry as they would anybody. It appears you use these experiences and anger to hate all policemen. This is a form of bigotry as pointed out in an earlier post by Ken. You justify your bigotry by your life experiences and pile on by reading and relating to others with similar experiences.

I told the story of my boss who is angry at a particular ethnic group for killing his brother. He uses this anger to justify his bigotry towards the whole group.

Comparing your story and his story I was asking if you could accept his self justified bigotry. And if not draw a comparison and maybe rethink your own.

For myself, I do not think either of your excuses/experiences are reason to justify the anger/hatred for whole groups of people.

[Teenwolf]

Sure. You have had some life experiences with bad policemen. Those make you angry as they would anybody. It appears you use these experiences and anger to hate all policemen. This is a form of bigotry as pointed out in an earlier post by Ken. You justify your bigotry by your life experiences and pile on by reading and relating to others with similar experiences.

I told the story of my boss who is angry at a particular ethnic group for killing his brother. He uses this anger to justify his bigotry towards the whole group.

Comparing your story and his story I was asking if you could accept his self justified bigotry. And if not draw a comparison and maybe rethink your own.

For myself, I do not think either of your excuses/experiences are reason to justify the anger/hatred for whole groups of people.

I don't hate all police. I believe the bad apples spoil the bunch, and I highly distrust their intentions on a general level, because the bad apples are never weeded out, they're nurtured and promoted to the place they feel they can shout down a cultural sensitivity instructor because there aren't any consequences. This opinion is based on my experiences with the police as well as following the local news. I don't believe my mistrust of police is bigotry, it's just my opinion.

[Teenwolf]

Funny enough, I just walked past a police car parked on the curb blocking a pedestrian crosswalk at the hospital, so that all of the folks in wheelchairs need to go around...

It's the little things that disgust me about lack of police accountability.

[In the Corn]

I don't believe my mistrust of police is bigotry, it's just my opinion.

bigot noun
big·ot | \ ˈbi-gət \
Definition of bigot
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

Funny enough, I just walked past a police car parked on the curb blocking a pedestrian crosswalk at the hospital, so that all of the folks in wheelchairs need to go around...

It's the little things that disgust me about lack of police accountability.

Did you see the reason why the police parked the car on the curb? You're making an assumption of bad when there may have been a greater purpose for the officer to do that.

[Sour Masher]

I don't hate all police. I believe the bad apples spoil the bunch, and I highly distrust their intentions on a general level, because the bad apples are never weeded out, they're nurtured and promoted to the place they feel they can shout down a cultural sensitivity instructor because there aren't any consequences. This opinion is based on my experiences with the police as well as following the local news. I don't believe my mistrust of police is bigotry, it's just my opinion.

This gets back to our society addressing the systemic issues we have, because 1. that is more effective at solving problems, and 2. it avoids the focus on individuals that personalizes the criticism and makes people, in this case, LEOs, defensive. There are systemic problems of organization, recruitment, vetting, training, corruption, and protectionism within law enforcement that need to be addressed. I think this issue is wider than the focus of this thread, but in the context of our conversation here, an important part of these needs involves addressing racial profiling and biased policing practices.

But that isn't, generally, how the conversation is framed. It is most often framed by the actions of individual police officers doing horrible things, and includes an underlying assumption, that the police, in total, are a rotten group of people. This, of course, offends police and their families and supporters, because many in that group know many good police officers, and so they discredit the whole body of criticism, because they see it is inaccurate. They get entrenched and do not open their minds and hearts to the problems that exist. In short, they get defensive and shut down, or make it about larger issues of patriotism or respect for rule of law. That is really a straw man creation, though. The real issues aren't about that (although, when those angry at police actions where shirts and socks that call police pigs, that doesn't help).

I think if those whose focus is real problems that we need to recognize and change about how police officers act--can also acknowledge that LEOs have a tough job, and that many do it with honor and respect, maybe we can get the blue team to come on board with acknowledging the issues and working with concerned citizens to address them. We can both critique our law enforcement system for the wrongs it clearly does, while also acknowledging the dangers and stresses they face. For instance, there is this recent case of police being shot, one being killed: http://time.com/5415269/south-caroli...ooting-gunman/

This case points to both sides of the problems, because it shows that police face danger all the time, and it also shows the racial biases in our country, because there were a lot of forum posters who initially assumed the killer/shooter in this case had to be a black man out to get cops, when, in fact, it was an old white guy--just the sort of person police are conditioned not to fear, not the sort of person they are conditioned to fear to the point of shooting first, and asking questions later.

[Gregg]

This gets back to our society addressing the systemic issues we have, because 1. that is more effective at solving problems, and 2. it avoids the focus on individuals that personalizes the criticism and makes people, in this case, LEOs, defensive. There are systemic problems of organization, recruitment, vetting, training, corruption, and protectionism within law enforcement that need to be addressed. I think this issue is wider than the focus of this thread, but in the context of our conversation here, an important part of these needs involves addressing racial profiling and biased policing practices.

But that isn't, generally, how the conversation is framed. It is most often framed by the actions of individual police officers doing horrible things, and includes an underlying assumption, that the police, in total, are a rotten group of people. This, of course, offends police and their families and supporters, because many in that group know many good police officers, and so they discredit the whole body of criticism, because they see it is inaccurate. They get entrenched and do not open their minds and hearts to the problems that exist. In short, they get defensive and shut down, or make it about larger issues of patriotism or respect for rule of law. That is really a straw man creation, though. The real issues aren't about that (although, when those angry at police actions where shirts and socks that call police pigs, that doesn't help).

I think if those whose focus is real problems that we need to recognize and change about how police officers act--can also acknowledge that LEOs have a tough job, and that many do it with honor and respect, maybe we can get the blue team to come on board with acknowledging the issues and working with concerned citizens to address them. We can both critique our law enforcement system for the wrongs it clearly does, while also acknowledging the dangers and stresses they face. For instance, there is this recent case of police being shot, one being killed: http://time.com/5415269/south-caroli...ooting-gunman/

This case points to both sides of the problems, because it shows that police face danger all the time, and it also shows the racial biases in our country, because there were a lot of forum posters who initially assumed the killer/shooter in this case had to be a black man out to get cops, when, in fact, it was an old white guy--just the sort of person police are conditioned not to fear, not the sort of person they are conditioned to fear to the point of shooting first, and asking questions later.

This is a good post.

[Teenwolf]

bigot noun
big·ot | \ ˈbi-gət \
Definition of bigot
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance



Did you see the reason why the police parked the car on the curb? You're making an assumption of bad when there may have been a greater purpose for the officer to do that.

You're really stretching the definition of bigotry here. How is my mistrust and anti-police stance bigoted when the very definition that you posted includes "one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance"...

Mistrust isnt even close to bigotry. I mistrust a lot of people intentions in their jobs. I mistrust door-to-door salespeople, obscenely wealthy people, folks who own more than 2 of the same breed of dog, polygamists, lol.... I could go on and on to illustrate the stupidity of this. My mistrust is a function of a clear lack of organizational or individual accountability, and this has eroded my trust in the institution. It may be an opinion you dont share but I dont believe it's even lose to bigotry.

As far as the bad parker, I saw him wandering back to his car, there were at least 5-6 actual parking spots that weren't blocking anything he could have used, but I admit it's a complicated scenario to explain if you weren't there. Just struck me as funny.

[Teenwolf]

This is a good post.

I agree, excellent summary of all of the reasons I distrust police.

[In the Corn]

You're really stretching the definition of bigotry here. How is my mistrust and anti-police stance bigoted when the very definition that you posted includes "one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance"...

Mistrust isnt even close to bigotry. I mistrust a lot of people intentions in their jobs. I mistrust door-to-door salespeople, obscenely wealthy people, folks who own more than 2 of the same breed of dog, polygamists, lol.... I could go on and on to illustrate the stupidity of this. My mistrust is a function of a clear lack of organizational or individual accountability, and this has eroded my trust in the institution. It may be an opinion you dont share but I dont believe it's even lose to bigotry.

Look at the anti-police protest from Boston in August 2017. Thousands of people protesting the police, and Trump says "I want to applaud the many protesters in Boston, many of whom are speaking out against bigotry and hate." Isnt that completely bizarre that he would label people protesting the police as crusaders "against bigotry and hate"? Doesn't that make you think maybe having a critical view of police is actually a necessary ingredient to civic trust in institutions? Why did nobody (presumably, other than Fox News whackos) criticize Trump for this statement at the time?

As far as the bad parker, I saw him wandering back to his car, there were at least 5-6 actual parking spots that weren't blocking anything he could have used, but I admit it's a complicated scenario to explain if you weren't there. Just struck me as funny.

I guess we view parenthesis different, but that's not the issue, as I see it. Perhaps maybe your just a "serial-stereotyper" based on your mistrust of so many various groups.

Sour Masher explained it very well, let's work to change the bigger issue. Let's not fan flames.

-----
https://educalingo.com/en/dic-en/bigoted

Bigotry is the state of mind of a bigot: someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats or views other people with fear, distrust or hatred on the basis of a person's ethnicity, evaluative orientation, race, religion, national origin, gender, gender identity, disability, socioeconomic status, or other characteristics.

[DMT]

So I guess judging Nazis, KKK, al Quaeda also makes some us bigots?

[DMT]

Ask African Americans and really all POC if they trust cops. My parents-in-law emigrated from India 38 years ago and have never broken a law other than traffic violations. You think they trust the police? No they don't. I guess they're all bigots too. See how ridiculous your argument is?

[Mithrandir]

bigot noun
big·ot | \ ˈbi-gət \
Definition of bigot
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance



Did you see the reason why the police parked the car on the curb? You're making an assumption of bad when there may have been a greater purpose for the officer to do that.

Even if there was some greater reason, the cop couldn't have parked a few feet from where he did?

[Sour Masher]

Ask African Americans and really all POC if they trust cops. My parents-in-law emigrated from India 38 years ago and have never broken a law other than traffic violations. You think they trust the police? No they don't. I guess they're all bigots too. See how ridiculous your argument is?

The distrust felt among minorities of the police is real issue, with really bad effects, for sure. There are lots of folks who will not rely on the police, because they do not think the police are there to protect and serve them. This is, in part, how and why organized crime organizations often flourish in minority communities, who are desperate for the protections and order the police are supposed to provide.

My wife, who is both black and who was born and raised (till 12) in Jamaica, often reminds me that it is my privileged as a white male to call for people on both sides of this to see each others' perspectives and to always be careful to not paint with a broad brush when speaking about this. She reminds me that it is irksome, to say the least, for a white guy to tell someone who has been profiled or harassed by police based on color and origin that this is a larger, systemic issue that affects all of us, and that there are a lot of good cops. She doesn't refute the merit in me doing this, but she also lets me know it is unfair for me to expect the same level-headedness from people who have been victimized by not just by the system, but by individuals who make them feel less than and unworthy of equal treatment by the law. I understand all of that, but still feel compelled to play peacemaker on this, because I really do think we get know where when we try to make this a black vs blue debate and force people to pick sides.

[DMT]

And who turned it into a black vs blue debate?