#___ingwhileblack

[In the Corn]

Argh, I'm sure I won't state this as I intend.

The story Ken shared is a clear case of racism, but where do we draw the line with the idea that if "something looks wrong, report it"?

Just to use the same case, would have been unreasonable for the woman to call the police before any interaction with the babysitter and report that something looked suspicious? Would we consider that racist?

When we get to a point where we are afraid to report something and then 15 minutes get an AMBER Alert about the two girls, how are we going to feel when those kids are never found?

[Sour Masher]

Argh, I'm sure I won't state this as I intend.

The story Ken shared is a clear case of racism, but where do we draw the line with the idea that if "something looks wrong, report it"?

Just to use the same case, would have been unreasonable for the woman to call the police before any interaction with the babysitter and report that something looked suspicious? Would we consider that racist?

When we get to a point where we are afraid to report something and then 15 minutes get an AMBER Alert about the two girls, how are we going to feel when those kids are never found?

I think this is a valid concern. We don't want to be in a place as a society that one cannot report suspicious or alarming behavior on anyone of a different race without being labeled racist. On the other hand, many clearly do report such behavior based on race and little to nothing more. many clearly treat people of color as suspicious for simply being people of color.

I'd need more info about the incident, this real one, or a hypothetical one. And in any event, as B-Fly says, it would be tough to codify right behavior through a law. In terms of my line for acting with appropriate concern and caution, I'd want to get a sense of whether the children or the care-giver gave any indications that something was amiss, aside from the contrast in their race? Were the kids acting scared? Were they crying? Was the man acting scared? What caught this woman's eye and made her worried enough to approach them? We may not know all of the facts here, but based on how it went down, I'm left suspecting that the sole suspicious/concerning thing this woman was responding to was the fact a black male was with two white girls. We want to get to a point where that on its own should not raise a red flag. But, again, we don't want to go so far that we miss obvious signs of kidnapping or abuse, or willfully ignore them in cases where we feel we will be labeled racist.

[Bernie Brewer]

Argh, I'm sure I won't state this as I intend.

The story Ken shared is a clear case of racism, but where do we draw the line with the idea that if "something looks wrong, report it"?

Just to use the same case, would have been unreasonable for the woman to call the police before any interaction with the babysitter and report that something looked suspicious? Would we consider that racist?

When we get to a point where we are afraid to report something and then 15 minutes get an AMBER Alert about the two girls, how are we going to feel when those kids are never found?

When the planes hit the twin towers 17 years ago, the world changed. For the last 17 years, it has been drummed into all of us that if you “see something, say something”. Now we’re saying if you say something and it involves a person of color, or one of the other protected classes, you’re a racist. I think several of these are examples in this thread are examples of racial discrimination but some are examples of see something, say something. I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion, so I’m out of this thread again. Carry on!

[Ken]

When the planes hit the twin towers 17 years ago, the world changed. For the last 17 years, it has been drummed into all of us that if you “see something, say something”. Now we’re saying if you say something and it involves a person of color, or one of the other protected classes, you’re a racist. I think several of these are examples in this thread are examples of racial discrimination but some are examples of see something, say something. I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion, so I’m out of this thread again. Carry on!

Yup, that's the hard part. I brought up the same concern in the 2nd post of the thread.

[Bernie Brewer]

Yup, that's the hard part. I brought up the same concern in the 2nd post of the thread.

I have half a mind to say great minds think alike, but I apparently co-opted your point.

[DMT]

How about a diversity sensitivity training for a 1st offense?

[revo]

Argh, I'm sure I won't state this as I intend.

The story Ken shared is a clear case of racism, but where do we draw the line with the idea that if "something looks wrong, report it"?

Just to use the same case, would have been unreasonable for the woman to call the police before any interaction with the babysitter and report that something looked suspicious? Would we consider that racist?

When we get to a point where we are afraid to report something and then 15 minutes get an AMBER Alert about the two girls, how are we going to feel when those kids are never found?

The issue is the only thing that "looked wrong" was that it was a black guy with two white children. Since she was already a nosy busybody, why not just snoop around a few more minutes and see how the kids are acting, instead of instantly saying "wow, a black guy with two white kids, I'm calling the police."

[DMT]

The issue is the only thing that "looked wrong" was that it was a black guy with two white children. Since she was already a nosy busybody, why not just snoop around a few more minutes and see how the kids are acting, instead of instantly saying "wow, a black guy with two white kids, I'm calling the police."

Because she's a pathetic low-life who has nothing better to do with her time.

[Ken]

Because she's a pathetic low-life who has nothing better to do with her time.

I agree.

But simply for the sake of conversation and to look at it from a devil's advocate position, what if she wasn't? What if the person was actually acting suspicious? How do we differentiate those situations from the racially motivated scenarios? I think that's the topic that is being discussed today.

[Sour Masher]

I agree.

But simply for the sake of conversation and to look at it from a devil's advocate position, what if she wasn't? What if the person was actually acting suspicious? How do we differentiate those situations from the racially motivated scenarios? I think that's the topic that is being discussed today.

Well, I'd hope that journalists who report on such incidences would provide the necessary context to allow up to make such judgments, but I know that doesn't always happened, depending on the news outlet. Of course, if there were clear signs of distress in this case, and those were reported, this would not raise anyone's ire as an example of the sort of behavior being rightly shamed in this thread.

That is for the court of public opinion. For actual courts, it would be tough, as B-Fly has said. It would be a hard thing to start deciding what counts as a legit call vs a racially motivated one, although on a case by case basis, with enough info, they are pretty easy to identify. It is a shame, if we can't figure out some reasonable solution to this, because I do think doing this when it is clearly not warranted is a form of harassment, and as I've said before, it can escalate to more than just an inconvenience.

This isn't the same thing, but has everyone heard of "swatting"? That "prank" has led to innocent people being killed by police. It is horrible. I believe there are laws in place for that sort of prank call. This would be a harder thing to do in cases like this, though.

[TranaGreg]

I agree.

But simply for the sake of conversation and to look at it from a devil's advocate position, what if she wasn't? What if the person was actually acting suspicious? How do we differentiate those situations from the racially motivated scenarios? I think that's the topic that is being discussed today.

Seems straightforward. If the suspicious activity warrants further investigation legitimately, independent of race, then it warrants a follow up. That may be direct intervention or calling in authorities. If I see two kids being pulled into a car yelling and screaming, I'd say that qualifies, even though they may just be kids not wanting to go to school. If one is crying because he dropped his ice cream coffee, it doesn't. Obviously there are a range in between those, and for different people the bar will vary, but it shouldn't be too hard to set some reasonable parameters.

[revo]

I agree.

But simply for the sake of conversation and to look at it from a devil's advocate position, what if she wasn't? What if the person was actually acting suspicious? How do we differentiate those situations from the racially motivated scenarios? I think that's the topic that is being discussed today.

The accused has the series of videos on his FB page. Says the lady just followed him all over the place and kept asking if the kids were in danger. Sounds like the only suspicious one.....is the accuser.

[Sour Masher]

How about a diversity sensitivity training for a 1st offense?

Seems like a good option to me. The consequences in that case are low stakes enough that if someone is penalized for this when maybe they shouldn't have, it isn't that big a deal. Just like drivers ed, this is something most people could benefit from anyway.

[B-Fly]

The issue is the only thing that "looked wrong" was that it was a black guy with two white children. Since she was already a nosy busybody, why not just snoop around a few more minutes and see how the kids are acting, instead of instantly saying "wow, a black guy with two white kids, I'm calling the police."

Apparently she did snoop around a few more moments, first asking the man if the kids were okay (to which he understandably replied "Why wouldn't they be?"), and subsequently asking him if she could speak directly with the older child (to which he replied "no" on the grounds that this woman is a complete stranger to me and the children in my care). All of this makes me conclude that even though I have essentially no doubt that she feared for the children's safety based almost entirely on the race and sex of the babysitter, it would be very difficult and potentially dangerous to have the government punishing her behavior without potentially chilling positive "it takes a village" type behaviors. That's why I tend back toward public education campaigns and more public discussion of #___ingwhileblack incidents to hopefully inspire people to examine their own prejudices and try to develop stronger cross-racial empathy.

[Ken]

The accused has the series of videos on his FB page. Says the lady just followed him all over the place and kept asking if the kids were in danger. Sounds like the only suspicious one.....is the accuser.

Oh I don't disagree at all. It seems like you may not have read the post you quoted? I presented a hypothetical only for the sake of conversation. The specific individual's facebook in this situation is completely irrelevant to the scenario I was referring to.