Roseanne returns as a Trump supporter

[In the Corn]

I'm don't give Roseanne much time or voice in my world. I rarely watched it when it was originally on.

I'm completely in Gregg's camp about it leading to thoughtful storylines. I'm sorry you doubt it.

As for Roseanne and The Seth Rich Murder Conspiracy...first I had to google what the Seth Rich Murder Conspiracy is. Once reading the Wiki-page, I remember the conspiracy theory, and it holds nothing for me. Sorry the guy was murdered, but I haven't spent any time even contemplating it, and even less if I support Roseanne spreading the theory.

TW, I think you'd find me to be more liberal-minded than you think. My reason for originally calling you out on the right-wingers hate minorities was anytime a conservative or even moderate voice here in the Sports Bar makes a sweeping generalization they get flamed. I was trying to point out that even left-leaning folks can sometimes be indelicate with their words.

[Teenwolf]

I'm don't give Roseanne much time or voice in my world. I rarely watched it when it was originally on.

I'm completely in Gregg's camp about it leading to thoughtful storylines. I'm sorry you doubt it.

As for Roseanne and The Seth Rich Murder Conspiracy...first I had to google what the Seth Rich Murder Conspiracy is. Once reading the Wiki-page, I remember the conspiracy theory, and it holds nothing for me. Sorry the guy was murdered, but I haven't spent any time even contemplating it, and even less if I support Roseanne spreading the theory.

TW, I think you'd find me to be more liberal-minded than you think. My reason for originally calling you out on the right-wingers hate minorities was anytime a conservative or even moderate voice here in the Sports Bar makes a sweeping generalization they get flamed. I was trying to point out that even left-leaning folks can sometimes be indelicate with their words.

Thanks for being more civil. I can see now how saying "right wingers have such a problem with minorities" was indelicate, clumsy, and should have been predictable as a firestarter comment... I apologize for calling everyone whining, crying, snowflakes. I can be a real douche on here sometimes, so I'm sorry for mud-slinging.

What I mean is, the Trump supporting Alt-Right wing of the Republican party are racist scumbags and it worries me that Roseanne has recently identified with much of the political messaging from the Alt-Right, spreading some of the sickest and most vile conspiracy theories, and all of this worries me greatly in regards to the content of the new show. I think that's fair to bring up.

I believe that an alt-right thinker like Roseanne would refuse to have an episode about a black issue because she'd see it as left-wing pandering, in which case that makes the kid a set-piece prop that signifies "we're not racist, so why even talk about race?"... but again, I sincerely hope that I'm proven wrong. The new show is being marketed as tackling serious issues, so I could yet be proven wrong. I was telling my wife, the grandkid's mom is apparently deployed in the military somewhere, so hopefully they bring her in at some point as an actual black cast member. That would be a step up. The first episode was the highest rated sitcom in the last 5 years, so it's already been picked up for a 2nd season. Lots of time to see how it all pans out. I'll continue watching.

[cardboardbox]

My wife has never been a Republican, but she's a black woman from a mixed race family.

wouldnt that make her a mixed race woman?

[Teenwolf]

wouldnt that make her a mixed race woman?

Kind of like how Obama is famously the first mixed race president, right?

No, my wife is almost never referred to or viewed as being "mixed race", she is almost universally viewed as a black woman. She identifies as "black" because she's treated as black people are treated. You don't get to say "Sorry officer, you don't understand, I'm actually half-white." If you're half-black, society has determined that you are black.

By the way, this isn't a dumb question, it's something I asked my wife myself early in the relationship and this is basically how she sees it.

[baldgriff]

At some point the conversation has to switch from "Hey look, there is an X type person" to "Hey look, there is Jan, Steven, Frank, Joe's grand-daughter (son)". (stop done - nothing else to say) with no reference to the color of the persons skin.

We have to treat people like individuals not generalized classes of people.


And if Im conservative because I believe that - then I dont want to be liberal.

[cardboardbox]

Kind of like how Obama is famously the first mixed race president, right?

No, my wife is almost never referred to or viewed as being "mixed race", she is almost universally viewed as a black woman. She identifies as "black" because she's treated as black people are treated. You don't get to say "Sorry officer, you don't understand, I'm actually half-white." If you're half-black, society has determined that you are black.

By the way, this isn't a dumb question, it's something I asked my wife myself early in the relationship and this is basically how she sees it.

Mrs Box is very mixed but doesnt call herself anything. She used to get frustrated and annoyed when she was a lot younger and people would ask her what she is but now she doesnt care and once you're much beyond 20 years old no one cares anyway. Depending on mood she might check all or none or half of the boxes for race/ethnicity when asked on paperwork.

[cardboardbox]

At some point the conversation has to switch from "Hey look, there is an X type person" to "Hey look, there is Jan, Steven, Frank, Joe's grand-daughter (son)". (stop done - nothing else to say) with no reference to the color of the persons skin.

We have to treat people like individuals not generalized classes of people.

Thats what I do and what I teach my kids to do and what I expect out of people I spend time with. But our brains are set up to quickly categorize things, it helps us understand unknown things faster. So it can be a little bit of a struggle to not let that automatic stereotyping completely take over our thought process.

[DMT]

At some point the conversation has to switch from "Hey look, there is an X type person" to "Hey look, there is Jan, Steven, Frank, Joe's grand-daughter (son)". (stop done - nothing else to say) with no reference to the color of the persons skin.

We have to treat people like individuals not generalized classes of people.


And if Im conservative because I believe that - then I dont want to be liberal.

Tell that to our police forces and justice department. Once they start treating every race equally then your point will have some merit. But to pretend like it's all 'identity politics' coming from the left is, once again, ignoring the facts that prove this is far from true.

[DMT]

Not to mention telling your children that race doesn't matter is white privilege at its finest. You think African Americans can tell their children the same thing?

[DMT]

And using MLK's words to back up such a view (that race doesn't matter) is truly hysterical. Ignoring the 'Dream' part is, well, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

[Sour Masher]

Yeah, it is a great ideal, and I understand where it is coming from, but there, unfortunately, are still the significant effects of institutionalized inequalities that we have to acknowledge and deal with, or many people in our society will continue to start every race in life 10 yards behind and wearing ankle weights. You can point to individual Horatio Alger stories to try to discredit this reality, but those cases don't do that. That just point out that some people are talented enough, smart enough, and most often, most importantly, lucky enough to overcome an uneven playing field. Just like when a small market baseball team wins the World Series despite having less resources than most other teams. Their win doesn't prove that the system gives every team and equal chance at success. And individual success stories don't disprove the overwhelming evidence that highlights that not only is it hard for any American to rise from the lowest economic quintile to the highest, and it is statistically even harder for African Americans and Latinos to make that jump than Whites and Asians.

Those are just facts, although some of the reasons for those facts are complicated, and have some chicken and egg components. For instance, part of the numbers indicate that children with only one parent (mostly single mothers) are way less likely to rise economically and are way more likely to go down a bad path. So, is that indicative of a racial bias in the system? Some would say no, but then you look at how over-policed and over-incarcerated African-American males are, and you start to see that our system punishes crimes this group commits more frequently and more harshly (sometimes even shooting them in the back) than other groups, which in turn takes them away from being parents to their kids. A conservative pundit might say they should just not break the law and be good dads, but 1. They often didn't have good dads, because the system took them away, and 2. Hard evidence tells us that other populations don't get pursued, prosecuted, and convicted at the same rate. Of course, economics play a part in this, and a rich black kid has advantages a poor white kid doesn't. But their is just no denying that all else being equal, AAs and Latinos have it worse than whites and Asians. They have to overcome more institutional biases. Especially males.

I think the disconnect with this for a lot of folks is that we all want to overcome our innate biases and judge people as people. But it just doesn't work that way, and the solutions to that fact are sometimes ham-fisted and put "privileged" people on the defensive. I think a better way to get everyone on the same page is to focus on the facts of inequality and focus on institutional and ideological solutions, and being careful not to attack potential allies to the cause of true equality and fairness, and try to avoid putting folks on the defensive. That is easier said than done, because a lot of folks aren't even open to looking at the cold, hard facts of inequality in this country. For many, admitting that America is not already the land of complete equality and fairness is unpatriotic whining. But maybe focusing on facts like those above about over-policing, and harsher penalties for crimes for African American males, instead of focusing on making individuals feel bad about who they are, is a place to start. I think a lot of folks, if they look at the facts, might be willing to support change in the institutions, if the conversations shifted away from putting them on the defense about being racists, to pointing out that they are unwittingly being complicit in allowing racial inequality to continue.

These are much bigger and more important issues to address than getting bogged down in debates about micro-aggressions, or even individuals being racists. I think focusing on the importance of keeping families together, and giving dads a chance to be dads would be something conservatives could get behind. Of course, that is only one part of the larger problem of institutional racial bias, but it is an important part, and one I'd hope we could come to consensus on.

[hacko]

My Brother married a black women - so of course he has Mixed boys. But without a shadow of a doubt they are looked upon (and treated by people that don't know them) by society as black. Which I find funny. They lived most of their lives next to or in my parents house - went to an all white (except them ) rural school. To me the difference in their upbringing then mine ( same house and school) was the color of their skin ( light) In other words they are exactly like me and their Dad BUT THEY DEFINITLY GET TREATED DIFFERENTLY. I find that shocking. They are now in their mid 30's so I have seen it from their childhood to being a father themselves.

[Hornsby]

My Brother married a black women - so of course he has Mixed boys. But without a showdown of a doubt they are looked upon (and treated by people that don't know them) by society as black. Which I find funny. They lived most of their lives next to or in my parents house - went to an all white (except them ) rural school. To me the difference in their upbringing then mine ( same house and school) was the color of their skin ( light) In other words they are exactly like me and their Dad BUT THAY DEFINITLY GET TREATED DIFFERENTLY. I find that shocking. They are now in their mid 30's so I have seen it from their childhood to being a father themselves.

Yeah, I think that this story can be repeated time and again with people who have mixed race relatives. No matter how they're raised, they are perceived as Black if that's their other than white ethnicity. I've got 4 mixed race stepkids, and they can all tell you stories that will make you damn near weep. Someday the day may come where people will be known by their names and not their race, but that day is a long way off...

[DMT]

So why is it that so many people on the right can't grasp this obvious fact? Is it lack of empathy? I really am not trying to be insulting but I don't see how you look at the drastic discrepancies across race in our country and still pretend that it's not a problem. Just because 'you' are not overtly racist and haven't experienced racism either directed toward or by 'you', how can 'you' possibly think it's no longer a huge barrier to minorities in our country? I said 'overtly' because pretending it is no longer a major issue perpetuates the problem.

[heyelander]

So why is it that so many people on the right can't grasp this obvious fact? Is it lack of empathy? I really am not trying to be insulting but I don't see how you look at the drastic discrepancies across race in our country and still pretend that it's not a problem. Just because 'you' are not overtly racist and haven't experienced racism either directed toward or by 'you', how can 'you' possibly think it's no longer a huge barrier to minorities in our country? I said 'overtly' because pretending it is no longer a major issue perpetuates the problem.

I think because most of it is systemic rather than personal. Jobs are gained through contacts and networking... this seems innocent enough, it's not meant to be racist, but when the country is artificially segregated, and the job networks continue to be white guys, it just happens. I'm not picking bob because he's white, i'm suggesting bob because he's a good guy and I know he'll do a good job. Unfortunately, nearly everyone in my circle is white, so it just perpetuates.

Also... privileged is tough to give up. I'm pro affirmative action, I'm pro-diversity, pro-getting more women into upper levels of management. I see and understand the need and appreciate the obstacles that unfairly hinder people... I'm also a 51 year old white dude who HATES his job and needs something new ASAP before I kill myself. It's depressing to think that maybe I could be behind because of diversity initiatives. Can't we wait to fix this shit until after I find a new gig?