Roseanne returns as a Trump supporter

[Sour Masher]

This also demonstrates again why she lost and still to this day seems to forget that the Electoral College was created specifically as an attempt to keep each states rights balanced. So that those few cities with the highest populations and economic support are valued just the same as the podunk town in backwoods Kentucky. Or the cities in the rust belt that she completely ignored.

Yes, I think we can all agree that HRC is tone deaf and was a very flawed candidate. I still can't believe she lost to the worst presidental candidate I hope our nation ever has the misfortune of having. Truly, it speaks volumes for how bad HRC was as a candidate to have lost to Trump. Instead of telling people she won the good part s of the country, she should forever be in hiding for her allowing Trump to win. At least Bartman had the decency of going in hiding for awhile.

BTW, I chose to restate my anger at HRC for losing to Trump, because I think we have proven no one can agree on the gun issue. I don't know what to say to the idea that we "only had 36,500" gun deaths in this country. B-fly already did his best to highlight that each of those deaths is worth many times the benefits guns bring to society. I don't think folks will ever agree on the pro/con balance for guns in general, but at least most agree that the cons outweight the pros for some things, like tanks, grenades, machine guns, bump stocks, etc.

Edit: another negative of having over 300 million guns floating around is that it seems to lead police to assume everyone has a gun, and to shoot out of fear of that fact. In the most recent case, shoot over 20 times, hitting the young man in the back 7 times, an act cowardice that led to him slowly bleeding out as they handcuffed him. I wonder if they would have made the same fearful assumptions in a society where guns were more rare.

[In the Corn]

Yes, I think we can all agree that HRC is tone deaf and was a very flawed candidate. I still can't believe she lost to the worst presidental candidate I hope our nation ever has the misfortune of having. Truly, it speaks volumes for how bad HRC was as a candidate to have lost to Trump. Instead of telling people she won the good part s of the country, she should forever be in hiding for her allowing Trump to win. At least Bartman had the decency of going in hiding for awhile.

BTW, I chose to restate my anger at HRC for losing to Trump, because I think we have proven no one can agree on the gun issue. I don't know what to say to the idea that we "only had 36,500" gun deaths in this country. B-fly already did his best to highlight that each of those deaths is worth many times the benefits guns bring to society. I don't think folks will ever agree on the pro/con balance for guns in general, but at least most agree that the cons outweight the pros for some things, like tanks, grenades, machine guns, bump stocks, etc.

Just so you know Masher, I'd have a beer with you! I think we would find a lot of our views similar and yet we could have spirited conversation about some others.

[Sour Masher]

Just so you know Masher, I'd have a beer with you! I think we would find a lot of our views similar and yet we could have spirited conversation about some others.

I agree ITC. If you ever have the misfortune of being in the Binghamton area, I'll happily treat you to your choice of brew .

[Teenwolf]

I never post on these toxic threads anymore, because being an independent is perhaps worst of all.

that said, I have always liked poster Teenwolf since way back when he was, well, a teen. he also has at times very poignantly shared experiences that have demonstrated his growth as a person. I truly admire that.

all of that said, this passage:

"My wife is pretty annoyed that Roseanne has a black grandchild. This seems like a good way to avoid discussing racial issues for the rest of the show, which is sad. Right wingers have such massive problems with minorities, so it's a shame this show will seemingly gloss over this issue."

I would gently suggest that the over-the-top stereotype not only is inaccurate and counterproductive, it may also have left you two stewing in your own juices. wild speculation on my part, obviously. but when I read that comment, I find it hard to believe that you are not trapped in a social media bubble, with little to no fresh air to breathe.

the new technology is almost inescapable, and the law of unintended consequences has led to highly destructive tribalism across the board. if you haven't found thoughtful articles that challenge your belief system, you aren't trying hard enough.

in the abstract, conservatism and liberalism are both very profound schools of political thought - they really are (and to touch on the other thread, it's pretty clear that there is more "fake news" on the mainstream right these days than on the left - and also that the left, realizing that, too often has tended to overreact by assuming too much).

I hope this post is not taken as some angry attack or something, because that certainly is not my intent. But I never did join Facebook, and I do think I am the richer for it.

let me add an example, from realclearpolitics.com on a recent speech in India by Hillary Clinton:

""If you look at the map of the United States, there is all that red in the middle, places where Trump won," she said. "What that map doesn’t show you is that I won the places that own two thirds of America’s Gross Domestic product. I won the places that are optimistic, diverse, dynamic, moving forward. And his whole campaign, Make America Great Again, was looking backwards. You don’t like black people getting rights, you don’t like women getting jobs, you don’t want to see that Indian American succeeding more than you are, whatever that problem is, I am going to solve it."

well, let's think about that for a moment, and take Louisiana and South Carolina as poster states for their unwillingness to see "that Indian American succeeding." seems plausible.

but wait.
in 2004, Bobby Jindal became the second Indian-American ever elected to Congress.
he became Governor in 2007 at age 36, and was re-elected with 65 pct of the vote in 2001.

or Nikki Haley, who was elected to the House in 2004 at age 32.
she then became Governor of South Carolina, the second Indian-American in the U.S. to achieve that status (Jindal was first).

so now it gets complicated, given that "right-wingers have such a problem with minorities" (which may include women).

even if you thought Jindal got in at first because those nasty right-wingers didn't realize he was "one of them," the state went 65 pct for him in re-election. and if you think that was all N'Awlins left-wingers voting for a minority, given his conservative views - um, no.

Haley comes from an even more conservative state, without a huge city - and she is, gasp, a woman.

note that the accusation is that Trump is so aggressively against Indian-Americans, so why is Haley now the U.S. Ambassador to the UN? and why haven't there been riots by all those right-wingers who have such a problem with minorities?

The fact that I've "pissed off" all the Republicans here by stating that "right wingers have a problem with minorities" is gut-bustingly hilarious to me. Your country elected it's president based on the popularity of him claiming your 1st black president was from KENYA with zero evidence! To deny that Republicans have a problem with racial identity politics is more than laughable, it's completely idiotic...

I'm not saying "all Republicans are racist". I'm not saying any of you crying, whining, snowflakes are racist, so kindly stop reacting to that. I'm saying the PARTY that you've chosen to affiliate with, has serious, systemic, obvious, catastrophic problems with race.

I could give endless examples. Here's a recent one from late February at CPAC:

Michael Steele shot back Saturday at a Conservative Political Action Conference official for a racial comment he made about the former Republican National Committee chairman at a dinner Friday night.

At the Ronald Reagan dinner, CPAC communications director Ian Walters said Steele was elected RNC chair "because he's a black guy."
"We were somewhat lost as a group, we had just elected the first African-American president, and that was a big deal and that was a hill that we got over and it was something that we were all proud of and we weren't sure what to do, and in a little bit of cynicism what did we do? This is a terrible thing. We elected Mike Steele to be the RNC chair because he's a black guy, that was the wrong thing to do," Walters said.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/24/polit...ers/index.html

You're all upset that I said these guys had problems with race? Watch that interview with Michael Steele talking about his profound disgust and disappointment with his own party. He won't even call it racist because he knows the level of outrage that he would receive if he did.

Is this the party you were talking about that doesn't have problems with race? Do you think if Bobby Jindal was the speaker at CPAC, someone would talk about the inferiority of his race in relation to the job?

I consider myself a left-leaning voter, and I feel that the left wing also has problems with identity politics, with neo-liberal corruption, with conducting foreign warfare, with idiotic anti-vaxers and uninformed voters, with all kinds of things... I would never listen to someone attack "lefties" for these issues and assume that I'm the subject. There are all kinds of idiots on both sides of the fence, please don't take things so personally. But if you wanna deny the Republican party has an issue with race, you've got about the same chances of BG convincing me that more guns = more safety.

[gcstomp]

On a lighter note, see the show? I watched it, thought it was funny and nostalgic for me. Will watch again. Glad to see Roseanne and Dan and the gang.

[Teenwolf]

On a lighter note, see the show? I watched it, thought it was funny and nostalgic for me. Will watch again. Glad to see Roseanne and Dan and the gang.

I agree, the 2nd episode was great and handled some subtle issues really well.

[Gregg]

Did anybody watch the Roseanne re-boot that aired last night?


My wife is pretty annoyed that Roseanne has a black grandchild. This seems like a good way to avoid discussing racial issues for the rest of the show, which is sad. Right wingers have such massive problems with minorities, so it's a shame this show will seemingly gloss over this issue.
.

How long has she been a Republican?

All kidding aside The introduction of a black grandchild will open up endless possibilities that minorities and mixed race families experience.

[Teenwolf]

How long has she been a Republican?

All kidding aside The introduction of a black grandchild will open up endless possibilities that minorities and mixed race families experience.

My wife has never been a Republican, but she's a black woman from a mixed race family. I defer to her authority on these issues.

It's a basic and well-worn concept: let's stick a black kid in there as a prop and everyone can feel good about themselves. Tokenization isn't new.

"Tokenism is the practice of making only a perfunctory or symbolic effort to be inclusive to members of minority groups, especially by recruiting a small number of people from underrepresented groups in order to give the appearance of racial or sexual equality within a workforce. The effort of including a token employee to a workforce is usually intended to create the impression of social inclusiveness and diversity (racial, religious, sexual, etc.) in order to deflect accusations of social discrimination."

Do you deny that "token" characters exist at all? How many lines has the grandchild had in the first 2 episodes? Less than 5 total, I can tell you that. So far, my wife has been right. By the way, this concept isn't even a right/left issue, it happens on both sides... "Tokenism" is a serious issue, but it's far more of a niche issue than the Republican party stoking racial fears and tensions to gain support, over and over again.

[onejayhawk]

This incarnation is no more watchable than the first one. What's all the fuss about?

J

[Gregg]

My wife has never been a Republican, but she's a black woman from a mixed race family. I defer to her authority on these issues.

It's a basic and well-worn concept: let's stick a black kid in there as a prop and everyone can feel good about themselves. Tokenization isn't new.

"Tokenism is the practice of making only a perfunctory or symbolic effort to be inclusive to members of minority groups, especially by recruiting a small number of people from underrepresented groups in order to give the appearance of racial or sexual equality within a workforce. The effort of including a token employee to a workforce is usually intended to create the impression of social inclusiveness and diversity (racial, religious, sexual, etc.) in order to deflect accusations of social discrimination."

Do you deny that "token" characters exist at all? How many lines has the grandchild had in the first 2 episodes? Less than 5 total, I can tell you that. So far, my wife has been right. By the way, this concept isn't even a right/left issue, it happens on both sides... "Tokenism" is a serious issue, but it's far more of a niche issue than the Republican party stoking racial fears and tensions to gain support, over and over again.

I am well aware of the term tokenism. It was invented in my lifetime and I grew up with it.

I don't have much interest in watching the new Rosanne show. I will have no way of really knowing for myself if this is a token character or not. I was pointing out that the character could (not would) be used to expose some of the social issues that mixed families endure.

Did you get my joke? Did you think it was funny as that was my intention.

[gcstomp]

I prefer Tolkeinization, as in JRR Tolkein. Address all issues as how they would fit and be tackled in the Tolkein-verse. Its just a funny sitcom show, was one of highest rated for a long time, been off air for 20 years. If you did not like it then, you wont like it now, but its just a haha 1/2 hour show that may hold some nostalgia.

[In the Corn]

In the first episode, I don't understand why Roseanne is made to look so stupid. It's funny because a lot of the stupidity that she says on the show echoes right-wing commentary, but it definitely makes the character of Roseanne look uninformed, and I'm not sure if that was her intention. Maybe she's too nuts these days to understand how negative her portrayal is? I'm not sure.

My wife is pretty annoyed that Roseanne has a black grandchild. This seems like a good way to avoid discussing racial issues for the rest of the show, which is sad. Right wingers have such massive problems with minorities, so it's a shame this show will seemingly gloss over this issue.

Hey Teenwolf -

Here's Roseanne giving you the big middle finger from her first time around with the show:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0688939/...?ref_=tt_ov_pl

Dan and Roseanne find out that D.J. wants to skip participating in his school play because he has to kiss a black girl, and is uncomfortable about it. Roseanne wants to force him, and Dan is worried that D.J. might have gotten prejudiced ideas by something he has unwittingly said or done.

Oh and she also did this:

http://mentalfloss.com/article/67975...about-roseanne

In season eight, Roseanne’s former boss Leon (Martin Mull) married his partner Scott (Fred Willard)—a scene that wouldn’t be so unusual today, but was very controversial back in 1995. (It actually aired later than its usual time slot because of its “adult humor.”) A year later, Roseanne’s mother came out of the closet.

Them's the facts.

[Teenwolf]

Hey Teenwolf -

Here's Roseanne giving you the big middle finger from her first time around with the show:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0688939/...?ref_=tt_ov_pl



Oh and she also did this:

http://mentalfloss.com/article/67975...about-roseanne



Them's the facts.

Triggered much? Is Roseanne "giving me the middle finger", or are you? WTF? "Them's the facts"... are you really trying to have a discussion? Would you say that to someone at work, like when you worked for the food bank?

[In the Corn]

TW -

Your OP was wide-sweeping of conservatives. I stated I had an issue that statement. You back-tracked a little bit. Then in another conservative vs. liberal thread you went evidence-based.

And, yes, you called out Roseanne by saying having the token black-grandchild made it easy for there to be no storylines about race. Others refuted that. I decided to come back evidence-based for you that, in fact, Roseanne does tackle the tough conversations.

Am I a little pissed that you came back with such a cavalier attitude regarding pissing off every conservative here. Sure, but I'm not a conservative...why would a conservative work in social services for more than 20 years. Oh, yeah, because the pay is awesome, the healthcare is awesome and my retirement account is fully-funded.

And, while I may not use the same language at work, I'll let you know one other thing about me. One of my strengthens from Strengthens Finder is Belief. And I have a line, and when someone crosses it they get the full artillery. I think I was pretty conciliatory in my first response, you escalated it, whether you think you did or not.

[Teenwolf]

TW -

Your OP was wide-sweeping of conservatives. I stated I had an issue that statement. You back-tracked a little bit. Then in another conservative vs. liberal thread you went evidence-based.

And, yes, you called out Roseanne by saying having the token black-grandchild made it easy for there to be no storylines about race. Others refuted that. I decided to come back evidence-based for you that, in fact, Roseanne does tackle the tough conversations.

Am I a little pissed that you came back with such a cavalier attitude regarding pissing off every conservative here. Sure, but I'm not a conservative...why would a conservative work in social services for more than 20 years. Oh, yeah, because the pay is awesome, the healthcare is awesome and my retirement account is fully-funded.

And, while I may not use the same language at work, I'll let you know one other thing about me. One of my strengthens from Strengthens Finder is Belief. And I have a line, and when someone crosses it they get the full artillery. I think I was pretty conciliatory in my first response, you escalated it, whether you think you did or not.

When Roseanne was asked about the black grandchild on The View, she responded saying "I love it. I've got a brown granddaughter. I've always wanted that."

My wife just looked at me and said "I rest my case."

I get the point Gregg was making earlier, that it's more likely having a black character will lead to thoughtful storylines that include issues about race. I simply doubt it, and I don't think it should piss you off to such a level. Repeating myself, I hope I'm proven wrong!

You clearly didn't read the article that I posted... it was about how Conservatives can be influenced to express more Liberal attitudes by extending a sense of safety, while Liberals can be influenced into expressing more Conservative attitudes when presented with a sense of insecurity/fear. It's not one-sided at all, it's a peer-reviewed study with some interesting findings about people's political malleability.

Do you support Roseanne spreading the Seth Rich murder conspiracy theory? Not concerned?