Democratic Party 2017 and beyond

[cardboardbox]

What are you referring to? Trump got 46% of the popular vote, three million less than Hillary.

and why does the popular vote matter?

[Redbirds Fan]

and why does the popular vote matter?

Jeez, CBB. Here is what you wrote: "As 2010 - 2016 showed, the electorate isnt as far left as you'd like to think they are." That is why the 2016 popular vote matters - it is an indication of how the electorate is thinking, a much better one than the Electoral College. Only 46% of the people bought Trump's far-right agenda. It would appear they are not as far right as you'd like to think they are. (It is difficult to call it a mandate when 54% of the people vote for someone else.)

[Redbirds Fan]

Im not a conservative - Im just not as liberal as you.

Here's what I was going on. You have said many conservative things. And you have called yourself a "conservative". I took it as a corroborated confession.

[cardboardbox]

Jeez, CBB. Here is what you wrote: "As 2010 - 2016 showed, the electorate isnt as far left as you'd like to think they are." That is why the 2016 popular vote matters - it is an indication of how the electorate is thinking, a much better one than the Electoral College. Only 46% of the people bought Trump's far-right agenda. It would appear they are not as far right as you'd like to think they are. (It is difficult to call it a mandate when 54% of the people vote for someone else.)

I was talking about house and senate and governors and state legislatures where democrats have been wiped out starting with the 2010 election.

[baldgriff]

Here's what I was going on. You have said many conservative things. And you have called yourself a "conservative". I took it as a corroborated confession.

I have referred to myself here are a conservative, because quite frankly I am more conservative than 85% or more that participate in these discussions. I will lay out my politics for people to view and tell me whether I am conservative, liberal or what I call myself which is libertarian/centrist.

I know among some people I know I am the lefty in the room.

[nots]

I have referred to myself here are a conservative, because quite frankly I am more conservative than 85% or more that participate in these discussions. I will lay out my politics for people to view and tell me whether I am conservative, liberal or what I call myself which is libertarian/centrist.

I know among some people I know I am the lefty in the room.

I like the libertarian/centrist label--I might borrow that phrase. Where are you on the military?

[cardboardbox]

I have referred to myself here are a conservative, because quite frankly I am more conservative than 85% or more that participate in these discussions. I will lay out my politics for people to view and tell me whether I am conservative, liberal or what I call myself which is libertarian/centrist.

I know among some people I know I am the lefty in the room.

I am often the lefty/socialist/snowflake in the room.

[cardboardbox]

I like the libertarian/centrist label--I might borrow that phrase. Where are you on the military?

I'm going to play this game too.... I like a strong military that protects us and our allies and leaves everyone else alone. I'm not sure how much that costs though... Come to think of it, this question is quite vague, lol.

[baldgriff]

I like the libertarian/centrist label--I might borrow that phrase. Where are you on the military?

I believe in strong National Defense and maintaining our borders. I dont believe we should be the police for the world or should be trying to use the military to proselytize "Democracy and The American Dream". I also believe we should take care of those that have served to ensure that they have marketable skills and are able to find employment and have good medical care upon return. Our military veterans should not be sleeping on the streets of the country the served!

I am proud of the country we live in and appreciate all the freedoms that come with it. Some may call me Nationalist - I dont like the connotation associated with it - I am definitely for the Home Team so to speak.

[cardboardbox]

on second thought, this is going to be hard because I dont have strong opinions/positions on many things.

[Sour Masher]

I believe in strong National Defense and maintaining our borders. I dont believe we should be the police for the world or should be trying to use the military to proselytize "Democracy and The American Dream". I also believe we should take care of those that have served to ensure that they have marketable skills and are able to find employment and have good medical care upon return. Our military veterans should not be sleeping on the streets of the country the served!

It always fascinates me that when folks move away from talking about politicians and fervently supporting their side, to actually stating their core beliefs, that those beliefs generally tend to be closer to on another than the fervent attacks and defenses on politicians would suggest.

For instance, I'd say your beliefs match with my own fairly well, although I do think isolationism can go too far, and there are specific, limited situations where I think our great military power carries a responsibility to intervene with things like genocide and wide-scale atrocities. And the ways we protect our borders, and who we let in or not are probably areas of disagreement as well, even if we agree on the general need for protecting borders. But we both strongly agree that if we put folks out there to fight for our country, we need to take care of them when they come back.

Trump's stated positions match up with yours to an extent, although I suspect we'd disagree about the degree to which we should worry about divergence from his stated philosophies on this issue. I worry he will put his personal interests ahead of our country's in a way that may cause conflict, and/or will make a strategic mistake that can cause more conflict. And his goals of expanding military funding, and reigniting a nuclear arms race are both at best unnecessary to protect ourselves, and at worst catastrophic. If he focused more on helping veterans and less on nuclear weapons, I'm guessing, we'd both be happier.

I am not predicting that it is likely, but it is certainly possible that someone who talks and acts like Trump, in charge of the biggest nuclear arsenal in the world, and the biggest military by far, could be the answer to Fermi's Paradox. Maybe we don't find life on other planets, because, at some point, life keeps destroying itself.

[Cobain's Ghost]

a libertarian/ centrist... is that even possible?

traditional political labels don't make a lot of sense any more. i can be left, right, liberal, or conservative to varying degrees depending on the issue and the specific circumstances surrounding it. people who want to put a political label on me before we can talk are usually more interested in the label than what i think.

[baldgriff]

Next issue for me to expound my thoughts on?

[The Feral Slasher]

And his goals of expanding military funding, and reigniting a nuclear arms race are both at best unnecessary to protect ourselves, and at worst catastrophic.

So if Trump is a puppet of the Russians are they re-igniting a nuclear arms race with themselves ? Maybe they are playing 11 dimensional chess.

[In the Corn]

a libertarian/ centrist... is that even possible?

traditional political labels don't make a lot of sense any more. i can be left, right, liberal, or conservative to varying degrees depending on the issue and the specific circumstances surrounding it. people who want to put a political label on me before we can talk are usually more interested in the label than what i think.

I made that case back on post #35 and it was totally ignored...