I'm more African than Warran is Native.
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"The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden, beyond the hugs, kisses and touching that women previously said made them uncomfortable." -NY Times
"For a woman to come forward in the glaring lights of focus, nationally, you’ve got to start off with the presumption that at least the essence of what she’s talking about is real, whether or not she forgets facts" - Joe Biden
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Originally posted by DMT View PostSure I can agree, but where are you getting this from? You still haven't answered the question of what she has gained specifically from claiming Native American status.
so absent such lockdown proof, we're good with Warren claiming a bogus status because it's not offensive unless...
pro tip: it's offensive.
and this seems like a smart gambit: make up a bogus status, and even when it gets uncovered as bogus, you're still good to go, absent 110 pct proof that you could not have advanced otherwise. and your ancestry status can go as far back as 200+ years ago, and it's all good as long as you wear the proper laundry.
I imagine that affirmative action programs are thrilled with this change in the atmosphere.
after all, what could go wrong?
I am trying to remember which party actually is supportive of minority groups in this country, and not just Elizabeth Warren.Last edited by Judge Jude; 10-15-2018, 08:25 PM.finished 10th in this 37th yr in 11-team-only NL 5x5
own picks 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 in April 2022 1st-rd farmhand draft
won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84
SP SGray 16, TWalker 10, AWood 10, Price 3, KH Kim 2, Corbin 10
RP Bednar 10, Bender 10, Graterol 2
C Stallings 2, Casali 1
1B Votto 10, 3B ERios 2, 1B Zimmerman 2, 2S Chisholm 5, 2B Hoerner 5, 2B Solano 2, 2B LGarcia 10, SS Gregorius 17
OF Cain 14, Bader 1, Daza 1
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JJ makes a compelling case on this issue. It isnt a great issue for her. However, on the list of sins committed by politicians, Warren being overzealous in embracing her, it turns out, distant NA heritage is a relatively minor one unworthy of the level attention Trump et al have given it. It is not like Warren was pulling a Rachael Dolezal. And it does seem likely that it started within the context of family pride in having a NA on the family tree, but that seems to have been exploited by Harvard inappropriately more than by her. But yeah, she should have called BS on Harvard claiming her as a "woman of color" hire. That is some BS right there, if they did that. Really, she should drop this issue, and let it die out. But, it is hard for her to ignore it when Trump keeps offensively calling her Pocahontas.
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SM, I think it is obvious that I also agree how vulgar the "Pocahontas" language is - among his other vulgarities.
I am in what I think accurate polling only tabs as an 8 pct real "undecided" likely voter electorate.
I already know what Trump is (hell, I have interviewed him a number of times).
what is the D side? 2018 and beyond. my state has Bob Menendez for US Senate re-election. should I vote for him?
my House seat also is in play. am open to pitches.finished 10th in this 37th yr in 11-team-only NL 5x5
own picks 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 in April 2022 1st-rd farmhand draft
won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84
SP SGray 16, TWalker 10, AWood 10, Price 3, KH Kim 2, Corbin 10
RP Bednar 10, Bender 10, Graterol 2
C Stallings 2, Casali 1
1B Votto 10, 3B ERios 2, 1B Zimmerman 2, 2S Chisholm 5, 2B Hoerner 5, 2B Solano 2, 2B LGarcia 10, SS Gregorius 17
OF Cain 14, Bader 1, Daza 1
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Originally posted by Judge Jude View PostSM, I think it is obvious that I also agree how vulgar the "Pocahontas" language is - among his other vulgarities.
I am in what I think accurate polling only tabs as an 8 pct real "undecided" likely voter electorate.
I already know what Trump is (hell, I have interviewed him a number of times).
what is the D side? 2018 and beyond. my state has Bob Menendez for US Senate re-election. should I vote for him?
my House seat also is in play. am open to pitches.
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Originally posted by Judge Jude View Postaside from the unknowable - did her bogus claim of Indian ancestry listed on her Penn status help her get into Harvard, which gets to claim they had no idea who she was until she bounced back to "white" status on her official application - it seems you are comfortable with her bizarre claim as long as there is no "blue dress" proof that it benefited her.
so absent such lockdown proof, we're good with Warren claiming a bogus status because it's not offensive unless...
pro tip: it's offensive.
and this seems like a smart gambit: make up a bogus status, and even when it gets uncovered as bogus, you're still good to go, absent 110 pct proof that you could not have advanced otherwise. and your ancestry status can go as far back as 200+ years ago, and it's all good as long as you wear the proper laundry.
I imagine that affirmative action programs are thrilled with this change in the atmosphere.
after all, what could go wrong?
I am trying to remember which party actually is supportive of minority groups in this country, and not just Elizabeth Warren.If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
- Terence McKenna
Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)
How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige
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Originally posted by cardboardbox View PostI'm more African than Warran is Native.If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
- Terence McKenna
Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)
How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige
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Originally posted by Judge Jude View PostI imagine that affirmative action programs are thrilled with this change in the atmosphere.
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Originally posted by OaklandA's View PostJust for the record, for admission purposes, the general rule is at least 25% (i.e., at least one grandparent) to claim a protected status. That is why Warren likely never claimed it on her applications - she knew she was nowhere close to that.I'm just here for the baseball.
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Originally posted by Judge Jude View PostI am trying to remember which party actually is supportive of minority groups in this country, and not just Elizabeth Warren.
The answer to all of those questions is the GOP, but you're confused because, even though we have pretty strong evidence that she applied as "Caucasian" on all of her job applications, Elizabeth Warren thought she had more Native American ancestry than she actually does. Talk about your false equivalencies...
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Originally posted by Judge Jude View PostI'm saying that you keep dodging the core issue - is it offensive for someone to claim an ethnicity and be lauded as a 'trailblazer' for having a relative that by the best estimate came along 200 years ago?
from Cherokee.org today:
TAHLEQUAH, Okla. — Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin Jr. issued the following statement Monday in response to Senator Elizabeth Warren’s DNA test claiming Native Heritage:
"A DNA test is useless to determine tribal citizenship. Current DNA tests do not even distinguish whether a person’s ancestors were indigenous to North or South America," Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin Jr. said. "Sovereign tribal nations set their own legal requirements for citizenship, and while DNA tests can be used to determine lineage, such as paternity to an individual, it is not evidence for tribal affiliation. Using a DNA test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation, even vaguely, is inappropriate and wrong. It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, whose ancestors are well documented and whose heritage is proven. Senator Warren is undermining tribal interests with her continued claims of tribal heritage."
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I want and I need a Democratic Party that actually looks out for the interests of minorities. the Rs won't, for damn sure.
why the need to rally 'round Warren for this nonsense? Native Americans have had a troubled history in trying to co-exist, and a wealthy old white lady trying to tie her political ambitions to them is wildly inappropriate.
be the better party - it's a damn low bar to clear these days.
Yeah, be like the Republicans and cheat the Natives in North Dakota out of their legal right to vote! That's how a party shows respect for minorities!
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/no...erican-voters/Larry David was once being heckled, long before any success. Heckler says "I'm taking my dog over to fuck your mother, weekly." Larry responds "I hate to tell you this, but your dog isn't liking it."
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Worth reading, particularly because it largely pre-dates the Elizabeth Warren context, and it's also pretty fascinating historically and culturally.
I suspect that Elizabeth Warren was raised on family stories of their "Cherokee blood" and that she internalized the family's pride in this connection. Ultimately, I think it was silly of her to list herself (or to allow Harvard Law to list her) as Native American if she didn't have at the very least a clear knowledge of where on the family tree she had a Cherokee ancestor. There's an unpleasant whiff of appropriation here that I think will not serve her well politically. Is it a huge moral/character failing? I don't think so. It just makes her look a bit foolish, even though Trump is ultimately the one who turned this from a non-issue to a potential political liability. In a crowded field likely to be competing for the 2020 nomination, that might be enough to put her down a notch.
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Judge Jude, I don't think Elizabeth Warren ever intended to tie her political ambitions to Native American identity. The DNA test was presumably an attempt to get ahead of or get past a potential political liability issue for her should she face Trump in 2020. The test lends support to the fact that her past references to Native American heritage were not fabricated from whole cloth. They lend some corroboration to her family's oral history. Ultimately, I assume she was largely hoping that any blowback around this will be taken care of now, over the next few weeks (months), and then will be old news by the time primaries begin. The rollout hasn't gone well for her, so far, largely because of the (understandable) negative reaction from Cherokee Nation.
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Originally posted by Judge Jude View PostBoston Globe is paywalled, but my guy Chris Mathews has this quote from their story posted on tonight's show: "she had her ethnicity changed from white to Native American at the University of Pennsylvania Law School, where she taught from 1987 to 1995."
that's before she landed at Harvard, a member of the Ivy League that is under fire for allegations of discrimination against Asian-Americans who have dominated test scoring and other key aspects in recent years.
I can't assume Harvard is an honest broker here, sorry.
the McCarthy case is early, but if he had any knowledge of the brother-in-law's shady dealings then obviously I would denounce that as well.
The smart play for her right now is for her to stop claiming to be Cherokee. The tribe doesn’t consider her to be a part of it and the news story yesterday showing her with such a small fraction of NA blood doesn’t help her claim. This thing will blow over, as long as she doesn’t keep talking about her ‘Native American heritage’ or the ‘family stories’ because some point soon, she is going to come across as someone who appropriating another’s culture. Just shut up and move on.
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