President Donald Trump

[revo]

I'm guilty as far as One Jay is concerned, but he does volley back to me, and yes, he is kind of a good sport about it. That started with J way before Trump infected politics, back probably 10 years ago when he proclaimed a Chiefs' draft class to be the greatest since the '74 Steelers. It was then when I realized he saw his world only through his whatever-colored glasses (go back and look at that draft class now, and it's solid if unspectacular,lol). Anyhow, 10 years later, he's still here!

[Teenwolf]

I guess that pretty much sums it up then.

I thought your statement of whataboutery regarding the WSJ being somehow unreliable because they published the Stormy Daniel's story to be a typical pathetic misdirection... really brutal that you get so easily distracted. Oh yeah, and Fox had the Stormy Daniels story Sept. 2016 and they buried it, so this is one example that doesn't fit your neat and tidy "both sides" shtick.

You are far too caught up in left vs right, red v blue, etc, to view anything objectively. The right wing as a whole suffer from this in the case of Brett Kavanaugh. Multiple other witnesses to his vile character disallowed from speaking out, but yet he's the choirboy you'd all love to have a beer with. Kavanaugh defenders have a particular delusion far worse than whatever you think TDS is. But that's just my opinion, and I do not wish to re-litigate the Kavanaugh confirmation as right wingers literally make me wanna puke when they speak all knowingly about what sexual assault victims go through, how memory from trauma works, etc. Please respect this desire, as I've said my piece.

There are more independents today than R or D. Time to come up with analysis that escapes that dichotomy. Just as true for lefties as righties, so maybe something we can agree on?

[Bernie Brewer]

I thought your statement of whataboutery regarding the WSJ being somehow unreliable because they published the Stormy Daniel's story to be a typical pathetic misdirection... really brutal that you get so easily distracted. Oh yeah, and Fox had the Stormy Daniels story Sept. 2016 and they buried it, so this is one example that doesn't fit your neat and tidy "both sides" shtick.

You are far too caught up in left vs right, red v blue, etc, to view anything objectively. The right wing as a whole suffer from this in the case of Brett Kavanaugh. Multiple other witnesses to his vile character disallowed from speaking out, but yet he's the choirboy you'd all love to have a beer with. Kavanaugh defenders have a particular delusion far worse than whatever you think TDS is. But that's just my opinion, and I do not wish to re-litigate the Kavanaugh confirmation as right wingers literally make me wanna puke when they speak all knowingly about what sexual assault victims go through, how memory from trauma works, etc. Please respect this desire, as I've said my piece.

There are more independents today than R or D. Time to come up with analysis that escapes that dichotomy. Just as true for lefties as righties, so maybe something we can agree on?

So when someone makes a comment about the reliability of the WSJ because it’s leans right and I offer that the WSJ broke the Stormy story, you took that as me saying the WSJ was unreliable. Try again.

As for your experience with sexual assault, I’m very sorry that happened to you, or to anyone, but I too speak from personal experience as a victim of a random violent crime and I know how my own mind and memories and experiences worked. So please don’t lecture me on the Kavanuagh bullshit once again. We simply aren’t going to agree.

So, thanks for playing. Have a nice day. (I probably am too late to delete this snarky comment so I’ll just apologize and own it).

[Teenwolf]

So when someone makes a comment about the reliability of the WSJ because it’s leans right and I offer that the WSJ broke the Stormy story, you took that as me saying the WSJ was unreliable. Try again.

Yeah. Thanks for playing. Have a nice day.

You wouldn't debate the actual substance because you're too distracted by what you deem Anti-Trump or Pro-Trump.

[Teenwolf]

Okay, so you did it again. You tried making the case that being attacked by a stranger with a knife gives you insight into the mindset of sexual assault victims...

I'm not minimizing your attack, or the trauma I'm sure you went through. But to state that this experience gives you direct insight into the process sexual assault victims go through is 100% fucking ludicrous. Apples and oranges. Your pain isn't transferable like that. If you've not been raped or abused, a knife attack isn't a substitute.

[Bernie Brewer]

Okay, so you did it again. You tried making the case that being attacked by a stranger with a knife gives you insight into the mindset of sexual assault victims...

I'm not minimizing your attack, or the trauma I'm sure you went through. But to state that this experience gives you direct insight into the process sexual assault victims go through is 100% fucking ludicrous. Apples and oranges. Your pain isn't transferable like that. If you've not been raped or abused, a knife attack isn't a substitute.

By the way, this is called projection in the psych business. Your projected your experience on Dr Ford. She was not raped. She was arguably assaulted, but as I understand it her trama was the idea that she could have been raped, not that she was raped, and that she felt she couldn’t breathe because a hand was over her face. So your facts are off, as usual. And how would you know anything about my experience Dr. Teenwolf? You’re clinically trained as a psychiatrist or Psychotherapist?

Never mind. I concede on all points. Carry on without me.

[Teenwolf]

And how would you know? Based on what Dr. Teenwolf. Never mind. Carry on without me.

How do I know that being sexually abused by someone friendly with your family is different from being attacked with a machete by a stranger??? How do you consider these the same?!

Edit to add: I'm not looking to carry on without you, just looking for acknowledgement that these forms of abuse have extremely different affects and outcomes.

[Bernie Brewer]

How do I know that being sexually abused by someone friendly with your family is different from being attacked with a machete by a stranger??? How do you consider these the same?!

Edit to add: I'm not looking to carry on without you, just looking for acknowledgement that these forms of abuse have extremely different affects and outcomes.

Try rereading my post, I wasn’t asking you to draw parallels to our tramatic life shaping and altering events. I am not dismissive of what you went through. I was saying that you’re projecting your event into the Ford situation, which in fact was much more like my event than yours. It was single moment in time when life might have been taken from us, randomly. Thankfully for me, and I mean this with all sensitivity possible, I can’t even relate to your event. But I can and do relate to Fords.

[Teenwolf]

Try rereading my post, I wasn’t asking you to draw parallels to our tramatic life shaping and altering events. I am not dismissive of what you went through. I was saying that you’re projecting your event into the Ford situation, which in fact was much more like my event than yours. It was single moment in time when life might have been taken from us, randomly. Thankfully for me, and I mean this with all sensitivity possible, I can’t even relate to your event. But I can and do relate to Fords.

I guess all 3 situations are pretty different. Blasey Ford's case has elements of sexual and physical assault. I allow that you have as much right as I do to connect with and understand her story as I do, if you're willing to admit that each of us is more likely than others to make assertions based on our personal history. Seems like a fair compromise, and we can agree to disagree on our conclusions.

I was speaking more to the whataboutism of declaring "fake news" as a distraction from the substance of the topic at hand. I believe the reason Revo included his tidbit about WSJ being Trump-friendly is that his supporters have been primed to declare all bad news is fake news. I know you claim to not be a supporter, so it just seems odd you continue to defend him against what? An unfair press? Because they reported about a $130K political contribution and huge scandal? The fact that as Revo hinted, their Op-Ed section often heaps praise on Trump, yet their reporting team covered the Stormy situation... doesn't that make them kinda fair and balanced?

[Bernie Brewer]

I guess all 3 situations are pretty different. Blasey Ford's case has elements of sexual and physical assault. I allow that you have as much right as I do to connect with and understand her story as I do, if you're willing to admit that each of us is more likely than others to make assertions based on our personal history. Seems like a fair compromise, and we can agree to disagree on our conclusions.

I was speaking more to the whataboutism of declaring "fake news" as a distraction from the substance of the topic at hand. I believe the reason Revo included his tidbit about WSJ being Trump-friendly is that his supporters have been primed to declare all bad news is fake news. I know you claim to not be a supporter, so it just seems odd you continue to defend him against what? An unfair press? Because they reported about a $130K political contribution and huge scandal? The fact that as Revo hinted, their Op-Ed section often heaps praise on Trump, yet their reporting team covered the Stormy situation... doesn't that make them kinda fair and balanced?

To your first paragraph, now we’re back to even, or in agreement, or... I’m not finding the right words but now we’re good! I think we all project our life experiences into our personal politics. So we will agree to disagree and we’ll continue to more respectfully disagree about the Ford Kavanaugh topic. The Damage has been done no matter which side your on.

I can’t speak to the lunacy that is Fox News because I’ve never watched it. Sounds very much like a lot of faux news from what I read. Who here watches Fox News and relate their partisan nonsense? I’m not seeing those folks. As for Op/Ed pieces they are what they are. The NYT and WaPo are not Trump pipe-organs and they post left leaning opinion pieces all the time. This counter balances WSJ. I don’t think any of these report real news falsely and you’d have to show where I’ve said otherwise. I think headlines often misrepresent the stories in all three, however. I usually don’t bothering reading an op-ed piece written by some partisan whether they lean right or left. An editorial or opinion piece is exactly what it’s labeled as such to me it is not to be confused with news. As for my disappointment with posters here who have a proclivity to exaggerate or over dramatize “news,” to be as bad the hated Trumpsters in this Board, who are these so called Trumpsters any way? I love reading fact base posts by SM and revo, as well as nots and baldgrif and many others. I don’t need the DNC talking points shivered down my throat nor the RNC’s.

While I don’t comment much in 2020 thread, it’s usually a good discussion until someone over sells the lesser known Bernie (cheap shot intended in a weak attempt at some humor!).

I’ve done enough damage around here for today (so don’t test me) and my head hurts. How about a I buy everyone a Molson Golden and we call it a good day at the office!!

[nots]

I can’t speak to the lunacy that is Fox News because I’ve never watched it. Sounds very much like a lot of faux news from what I read. Who here watches Fox News and relate their partisan nonsense?!

I often wonder if the critics of Fox News watch it. I never watch Fox (nor CNN or MSNBC) and I know folks say all are biased. I just wonder if, as a liberal, why you would watch Fox? Why aggravate yourself? Just so you can post about how much it sucks? Same holds true for Conservatives who claim to watch MSNBC. Are they really watching it? Or just going by what their team tells them?
I like opinion pieces, so I read most of the stories on the RCP repository every day. They post one opinion piece by a conservative, followed by a liberal opinion piece on the same topic. Occasionally they will have a Breitbart or Mother Jones red meat article, but usually they pick pretty solid, well written articles.

[Bernie Brewer]

I often wonder if the critics of Fox News watch it. I never watch Fox (nor CNN or MSNBC) and I know folks say all are biased. I just wonder if, as a liberal, why you would watch Fox? Why aggravate yourself? Just so you can post about how much it sucks? Same holds true for Conservatives who claim to watch MSNBC. Are they really watching it? Or just going by what their team tells them?
I like opinion pieces, so I read most of the stories on the RCP repository every day. They post one opinion piece by a conservative, followed by a liberal opinion piece on the same topic. Occasionally they will have a Breitbart or Mother Jones red meat article, but usually they pick pretty solid, well written articles.

I get a daily newsletter in my email from The Flip Side https://www.theflipside.io which is similar to RCP. I highly recommend it. They cover both left and right sides of a particular single issue everyday. It’s very informative. I click the links and many are Op-Ed’s from NYT, WaPo, WSJ or the various aggregators. Yes even CNN, MSNBC and Fox. I get a lot out of it (“that’s how I bring my full game to this party!” he said knowing full well the irony of the statement!).

[Teenwolf]

I largely agree with you, BB. These organizations mostly seek to share stories they believe to be true. But as TV news has become much more TMZ/entertainment driven, in combination with a social media age in which the algorithm feeds us what it thinks we want to see... news has adopted this algorithm mentality of feeding people what they think they want. So CNN purposely hires the dumbest right wingers as contributors to get dunked on, and the result is news devolves into mean girls style hyperventilating and bloviating over nonsense, while cheerleading endless war, and promoting austerity. It's pretty useless, MSM, other than taking the pulse of what popular narratives are forming. I think anybody taking only MSM in, and not digging deeper, is going to be seriously underinformed. I've been liking PBS Newshour as a fairly unbiased TV news format show, but they're hard to find. I prefer lefty sources that acknowledge their own positions and possible biases, and I don't mean left MSM. Young Turks style YouTube commentators are my preference.

One part of the equation unmentioned is right wing radio's powerful influence on opinion. I'm betting 1jay is influenced much more by radio, as well as online. Each platform supports fringe/extreme views much more so than TV or newspapers, as TV/newspaper rely on AD revenue, and broad appeal. (1jay, lemme know if I nailed it!)

[Bernie Brewer]

One part of the equation unmentioned is right wing radio's powerful influence on opinion. I'm betting 1jay is influenced much more by radio, as well as online. Each platform supports fringe/extreme views much more so than TV or newspapers, as TV/newspaper rely on AD revenue, and broad appeal. (1jay, lemme know if I nailed it!)

I’ll freely admit that the only right-wing talk radio that I’ve ever listened to was on WTMJ 620 out of my home town of Milwaukee. I live 75 miles south and the signal always came in strong during the morning drive time. I loved listening to Charlie Sykes when he was just some local guy. He was a political power broker in southeastern WI and was the force behind Scott Walker’s rise, and to a lesser extents with Paul Ryan and Ron Johnson. He was the original Never Trumper and was largely responsible for Trump losing the GOP Primary in Wisconsin in 2016. He left the station after Trump was elected and now he’s a national media guy with MSNBC. I no longer listen to talk radio or Charlie Sykes. I do read his blog which is the replacement site for the Weekly Standard, the Bulwark. Bulwark.

[nots]

I’ll freely admit that the only right-wing talk radio that I’ve ever listened to was on WTMJ 620 out of my home town of Milwaukee. I live 75 miles south and the signal always came in strong during the morning drive time. I loved listening to Charlie Sykes when he was just some local guy. He was a political power broker in southeastern WI and was the force behind Scott Walker’s rise, and to a lesser extents with Paul Ryan and Ron Johnson. He was the original Never Trumper and was largely responsible for Trump losing the GOP Primary in Wisconsin in 2016. He left the station after Trump was elected and now he’s a national media guy with MSNBC. I no longer listen to talk radio or Charlie Sykes. I do read his blog which is the replacement site for the Weekly Standard, the Bulwark. Bulwark.

Long time ago I had to drive Morgantown to Charleston a lot. Not much available on the radio there—just right wing talk and religious channels. I could listen to Rush. He could be annoying from time to time, but he was entertaining and presented an intelligent view of the conservative message, even if I didn’t agree with some of it.* Hannity was the other option. Just brutal. Simpleton arguments, ridiculous characterizations of Democrats, not entertaining in any way. Many a day I finished my ride in silence rather than listen to the clown show.
* please save your ire. Not an endorsement of Rush—