President Donald Trump

[Sour Masher]

Can't wait to hear the familiar refrain from his enablers, just wait until he actually does something.

I can understand fiscal conservatism, but I really would love to hear anyone defend this budget. This is him doing something--something that will affect millions of Americans negatively, and for what? Pinching pennies that really matter to millions of Americans to do what, waste dollars on bloated defense spending, run up the debt with tax cuts on the rich?

DeVos argued it is okay to cut free and reduce lunch programs, because she said there wasn't enough evidence that starving kids performing more poorly on tests. I just read comments for a story about how a toddler with a heart conditions was escorted to a hospital 80 miles away by a convoy of snow plaw to save his life, and there were conservatives saying it was a waste of tax payer dollars to spend so much for a family who should foot the bill themselves. What happened to compassionate conservatism?

[Redbirds Fan]

I was reading this article which included some fairly bizarre Trump quotes from the Tucker Carlson interview, and I found that it reads much better if when you read the quoted material you imagine the voice of Joe Pesci, James Gandolfini, or your favorite wise guy.

"What he was saying and what he was talking about and how he mentioned the word 'wiretap,' you would feel very confident that you could mention the name," Trump said. "He mentioned it. And other people have mentioned it."

Asked whether he "devalues his own currency" by tweeting things that are not true, Trump defended himself.

"Let's see whether or not I proved it," Trump said. "You looked at some proof. I mean, let's see whether or not I prove it. I just don't choose to do it right now...I think we have some very good stuff, and we're in the process of putting it together, and I think it's going to be very demonstrative."

Trump tried to provide a loose definition for what he accused Obama of ordering, an explanation his press secretary, Sean Spicer, has tried to hammer home as well.

"Don't forget, when I say 'wiretapping,' those words were in quotes," Trump told Carlson. "That really covers, because wiretapping is pretty old-fashioned stuff. But that really covers surveillance and many other things. And nobody ever talks about the fact that it was in quotes, but that's a very important thing."

[Redbirds Fan]

Does this sound to you like a man who likes to read?

"Well, you know, I love to read. Actually, I'm looking at a book, I'm reading a book, I'm trying to get started. Every time I do about a half a page, I get a phone call that there's some emergency, this or that. But we're going to see the home of Andrew Jackson today in Tennessee and I'm reading a book on Andrew Jackson. I love to read. I don't get to read very much, Tucker, because I'm working very hard on lots of different things, including getting costs down. The costs of our country are out of control. But we have a lot of great things happening, we have a lot of tremendous things happening."

This sounds like my son when I asked him if his 9th grade book report was done.

[dslaw]

Trumps budget came out today...slash and burn to just about everything but Defense and Vet's affairs. Cuts Ag (who needs safe food?) cuts Commerce (Who need NOAA? Climate change isn't real!), cuts Education by 10 billion (Kids, a dime a dozen...smart ones will figure it out!), cuts Energy (more of that Science hoo haa.), cuts Health and Human Services (who needs to help old people and the disabled? Send 'em out on an Ice Floe!), Cuts National Institute of Health (Research, Bah!), cuts Hud (Meal on Wheels? What the hell is that?), cuts Interior (Parks suck, so do historical places!), cuts Labor (Job training??? Minority programs? WTF?)...and it goes on, and on, and on.

It's likely DOA, but it just continues to show the arrogance and lack of understanding of these people. Meal on Wheels cut? Really? It's barely over 3 million bucks, less that a weekend trip to Mar-a-Lago...and FAR less expensive than it is so that Melania doesn't have to see her husband.

Add $54 billion to defense. Completely eliminate funding for PBS. Cut EPA by $2.6B, a cut of 31%. The good news is both (R) and (D) say it is dead on arrival.

Budget Director Mick Mulvaney says cutting funding for anti-poverty is compassionate -“No, I don’t think so,” said Mulvaney when asked if the budget was “hard-hearted,” adding, “In fact, I think it’s one of the most compassionate things we can do. … You’re only focusing on half of the equation, you’re only focusing on recipients of the money. We’re trying to focus both on the recipients of the money and the folks who give us the money in the first place. And I think it’s fairly compassionate to go to them and say, ‘Look, we’re not going to ask you for your hard-earned money any more.’ ‘Single mom of two in Detroit, OK, give us your money.’ We’re not going to do that anymore … unless we can guarantee to you that that money is actually being used in a proper function, and I think that is about as compassionate as you can get.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/cuts-to-poverty-programs-are-as-compassionate-as-you-can-get-trump-budget-chief-says-211630818.html

Also in the link - if that single mom in Detroit is making $34,000 a year she would see her tax increase from $1,255 currently to $2,280 under Trump's plan. Let's just cut income tax to $0 for anyone making over $1M per year. That is pretty compassionate.

[baldgriff]

Lets just make it simple - minimize taxes on income. Put more money in peoples pockets and allow them to spend their money on what they want. If the govt wants to collect an extra 1% on sales taxes - go for it.

[DMT]

Lets just make it simple - minimize taxes on income. Put more money in peoples pockets and allow them to spend their money on what they want. If the govt wants to collect an extra 1% on sales taxes - go for it.

It seems to me you simply don't recognize the complexity of the modern world. I'm not trying to be insulting but in post after post here your solution to nearly every issue is 'remember back when...' and 'simplify'.

[Hodor]

Lets just make it simple - minimize taxes on income. Put more money in peoples pockets and allow them to spend their money on what they want. If the govt wants to collect an extra 1% on sales taxes - go for it.

Let me make this simple.

What you are advocating would cause people in need to go without. Go without shelter, food, medicine and health care.

People would die. People who might otherwise live.

Are you REALLY OK with that?

[baldgriff]

It seems to me you simply don't recognize the complexity of the modern world. I'm not trying to be insulting but in post after post here your solution to nearly every issue is 'remember back when...' and 'simplify'.

I am a firm believer in the KISS method - Keep It Simple Stupid.

Just because we have created complexity - doesnt mean we cant simplify other issues. And yes I realize the the idea of completely getting rid of the Income Tax, and collecting an additional X% from sales tax would likely have a number of bumps along the way.

By the way, isnt it possible that the complexities we have created could be eased by simplifying?

Your not insulting me - at least now.... ;-)

[baldgriff]

Let me make this simple.

What you are advocating would cause people in need to go without. Go without shelter, food, medicine and health care.

People would die. People who might otherwise live.

Are you REALLY OK with that?

People in need are going without shelter, food, medicine and health care currently. Im not OK with people dying.

I dont believe that we should be paying over 20% of our incomes to the Federal Govt and another X% to the States. How much more do we need to give the government to shelter, feed and heal the sick and the poor. Its either we arent giving enough now - or they arent be good stewards of our money. I just dont believe that giving our government more money or more power is going to fix the problem.

I do think that if people have more money in their pockets, there may be fewer poor people who may actually be able to get themselves shelter, food and medicine.

This again is where we differ - I believe you want the government to fix all of the problems, be in control of all of the decisions. Whereas, I want people to be personally vested in their lives, making decisions for themselves, and being responsible for themselves and the people around them.

The more responsibility that is given to the government to care for others the less responsibility we take upon ourselves for our common man. (I know you will likely disagree with this)

[GwynnInTheHall]

People in need are going without shelter, food, medicine and health care currently. Im not OK with people dying.

I dont believe that we should be paying over 20% of our incomes to the Federal Govt and another X% to the States. How much more do we need to give the government to shelter, feed and heal the sick and the poor. Its either we arent giving enough now - or they arent be good stewards of our money. I just dont believe that giving our government more money or more power is going to fix the problem.

I do think that if people have more money in their pockets, there may be fewer poor people who may actually be able to get themselves shelter, food and medicine.

This again is where we differ - I believe you want the government to fix all of the problems, be in control of all of the decisions. Whereas, I want people to be personally vested in their lives, making decisions for themselves, and being responsible for themselves and the people around them.

The more responsibility that is given to the government to care for others the less responsibility we take upon ourselves for our common man. (I know you will likely disagree with this)

We absolutely do.

Just like trickle down economics, your version of how things should be relies on the kindness of others and there has been NOTHING in the past 4 decades that's shown us that left to their own devices, people will do the right thing.

Think about it like this, if were such a benevolent species, why do people go without in the first place?

As long as there are even a handful of people who don't hold up their end of the social contract your system won't work and therefore--we are required to legislate and fund it so that people don't starve, live in the streets, exists in illness and/or die.

People say I'm a utopian, but the world you want with perfect people who always do the right thing on their own? Now THAT's Utopian!

[gcstomp]

People in need are going without shelter, food, medicine and health care currently. Im not OK with people dying.
Self diagnose your statement. You are saying if every single person is not getting everything, then no one is getting help? Or no one should get help? This is an odd statement on your part.

But back to simplify. We currently have extremely low taxes for vast benefits for living in this country, where virtually every single person enjoys some aspect of advantages from the taxes. We can assume a bizarro world where US 100% eliminates all income tax, and simply relies on sales tax. Say the required percent would need to be 20% on every single good or service. It is regressive, meaning poor would carry the load. Blood in the streets. You cant buy something when you cant afford it, you must simply simply steal it. People will never just quietly starve in the streets and die. Think of all the great countries in the world that have high standards of living. They all have higher taxes than us. Name one that has a tax structure like you envision. Your structure would be a handful of wealthy warlords with hired personal armies, and merc pirate ships. Just way outside of what is the concept of USA.

[nots]

People in need are going without shelter, food, medicine and health care currently. Im not OK with people dying.
Self diagnose your statement. You are saying if every single person is not getting everything, then no one is getting help? Or no one should get help? This is an odd statement on your part.

But back to simplify. We currently have extremely low taxes for vast benefits for living in this country, where virtually every single person enjoys some aspect of advantages from the taxes. We can assume a bizarro world where US 100% eliminates all income tax, and simply relies on sales tax. Say the required percent would need to be 20% on every single good or service. It is regressive, meaning poor would carry the load. Blood in the streets. You cant buy something when you cant afford it, you must simply simply steal it. People will never just quietly starve in the streets and die. Think of all the great countries in the world that have high standards of living. They all have higher taxes than us. Name one that has a tax structure like you envision. Your structure would be a handful of wealthy warlords with hired personal armies, and merc pirate ships. Just way outside of what is the concept of USA.

Most have a value added tax as well, but that seems to be an anathema in this room.

[nots]

We absolutely do.

Just like trickle down economics, your version of how things should be relies on the kindness of others and there has been NOTHING in the past 4 decades that's shown us that left to their own devices, people will do the right thing.

Think about it like this, if were such a benevolent species, why do people go without in the first place?

As long as there are even a handful of people who don't hold up their end of the social contract your system won't work and therefore--we are required to legislate and fund it so that people don't starve, live in the streets, exists in illness and/or die.

People say I'm a utopian, but the world you want with perfect people who always do the right thing on their own? Now THAT's Utopian!

We have spent approx. $20T since 1964 on social problems. In your opinion, how have we done with that investment?

[gcstomp]

I am curious how you came up with the 20T since 1964, and what you define as money spent on social problems. That reads like some extreme right wing conservative think tank website statement. You may be correct, just would like to see the work there.

[nots]

I am curious how you came up with the 20T since 1964, and what you define as money spent on social problems. That reads like some extreme right wing conservative think tank website statement. You may be correct, just would like to see the work there.

I am curious to hear who you think are KKK members in the room