President Donald Trump

[Hornsby]

In today's facepalm moment (other than pledging to raise Defense funding by 10%), Trump takes on healthcare.

“It’s an unbelievably complex subject. Nobody knew health care could be so complicated.”

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/02/trump-nobody-knew-health-care-could-be-so-complicated.html?mid=twitter_nymag

Nobody knew healthcare could be this complicated??? Really? Nobody? Other than everyone who's ever had to struggle for health insurance, or pay hospital bills...maybe THEY knew how complicated it is.

Sweet Jesus, what a Marie Antoinette moment...

[The Feral Slasher]

You have badly oversimplified my stated position. Are you going out of your way to be disagreeable?

I was a Sanders supporter. I also tried to keep Trump from being elected.

There is a place for anyone in the Democratic Party who wants to be a member. But if you don't want to be a Democrat, it is probably not the best place for you. And although it is not up to me to say, if you want to be a part-timer or a short-termer, then I would say there is no place for you in the party.

I don't believe you would willingly go into battle with someone you knew you couldn't count on when things got tough. It is disingenious for you to suggest that the Democratic party should beg for the membersip of individuals who have proven they cannot be trusted.


EDIT: Looking back over a couple of threads, I can't see that you have taken strong positions on anything, save for the radical stance that corporate money has too much influence in politics. You don't even seem to have a pulse on the Trump/Russia issue. You seem more interested in stirring stink than having some skin in the game. This is a step lower on the rung than the faux militant Berners, who eschew conventional politics and chart their own paths to the utopian future.

Wow. If all Democratic Party members are as thin-skinned and angry as you party unity is going to be real hard. I've been trying to offer constructive criticism and point out that blaming and criticizing Bernie and his supporters and expecting that it is a privilege for them to be part of the Democratic Party is a losing strategy. This should be pretty easy to understand.

Below is a sample of some of your comments related to the "Berners"

Post 1264 - I think that applies to a lot of the Berners who didn't support the Democratic ticket and now seem intent on blowing up the Party. Even the ones who consider themselves activists have the mindset that the Party must reach out and cater to them...persuade them to get on board. One state chairman said of Tom Perez that she would work with him, but that he would have to "build the bridge".

Post 1269 - The Berners are loyal only to themselves. They proved this when they refused even to accept the endorsement of Hillary by their movement's leader. Many of their most vocal advocates had little idea how the process worked when this cycle began, yet they loudly condemned it as "rigged" against their candidate.


Post 1278 - To answer the question about what the Democrats do to get them back, I don't think there is anything which can be done. No party could meet all the conditions and accomodations demanded by the various factions of Sanders wing, from fracking to term limits to trade to minimum wage to personal apologies from Hillary and public floggings of DWS. And, of course, anything short of total capitulation by the DNC would require "compromise" by the Berners. And compromise, to them, is a mortal sin.

So I think the Democratic Party soldiers on. The Berners have overplayed their hand.

So I think I pretty accurately summarized your statements. How do you think your comments are received by Sanders supporters ? Do you think it makes them want to be part of your party ? Does it show a willingness to compromise on your part ? I don't know how to put it any simpler than this -- continually blaming and insulting Sanders supporters is not helping you win. The facts indicate the Democratic Party is not doing very well right now and you should be looking at ways to gain support from both inside and outside the party. I'm sorry if that pisses you off to the point that you feel the need to insult me personally.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Wow. If all Democratic Party members are as thin-skinned and angry as you party unity is going to be real hard. I've been trying to offer constructive criticism and point out that blaming and criticizing Bernie and his supporters and expecting that it is a privilege for them to be part of the Democratic Party is a losing strategy. This should be pretty easy to understand.

Below is a sample of some of your comments related to the "Berners"

Post 1264 - I think that applies to a lot of the Berners who didn't support the Democratic ticket and now seem intent on blowing up the Party. Even the ones who consider themselves activists have the mindset that the Party must reach out and cater to them...persuade them to get on board. One state chairman said of Tom Perez that she would work with him, but that he would have to "build the bridge".

Post 1269 - The Berners are loyal only to themselves. They proved this when they refused even to accept the endorsement of Hillary by their movement's leader. Many of their most vocal advocates had little idea how the process worked when this cycle began, yet they loudly condemned it as "rigged" against their candidate.


Post 1278 - To answer the question about what the Democrats do to get them back, I don't think there is anything which can be done. No party could meet all the conditions and accomodations demanded by the various factions of Sanders wing, from fracking to term limits to trade to minimum wage to personal apologies from Hillary and public floggings of DWS. And, of course, anything short of total capitulation by the DNC would require "compromise" by the Berners. And compromise, to them, is a mortal sin.

So I think the Democratic Party soldiers on. The Berners have overplayed their hand.

So I think I pretty accurately summarized your statements. How do you think your comments are received by Sanders supporters ? Do you think it makes them want to be part of your party ? Does it show a willingness to compromise on your part ? I don't know how to put it any simpler than this -- continually blaming and insulting Sanders supporters is not helping you win. The facts indicate the Democratic Party is not doing very well right now and you should be looking at ways to gain support from both inside and outside the party. I'm sorry if that pisses you off to the point that you feel the need to insult me personally.

The Defense rests.......

[onejayhawk]

The Defense rests.......

So you think the party is in pieces?

How many agree?

J

[Hodor]

So you think the party is in pieces?

How many agree?

J

Read up, catch up.

Nice to see you're back

[Redbirds Fan]

Wow. If all Democratic Party members are as thin-skinned and angry as you party unity is going to be real hard. I've been trying to offer constructive criticism and point out that blaming and criticizing Bernie and his supporters and expecting that it is a privilege for them to be part of the Democratic Party is a losing strategy. This should be pretty easy to understand.

Below is a sample of some of your comments related to the "Berners"

Post 1264 - I think that applies to a lot of the Berners who didn't support the Democratic ticket and now seem intent on blowing up the Party. Even the ones who consider themselves activists have the mindset that the Party must reach out and cater to them...persuade them to get on board. One state chairman said of Tom Perez that she would work with him, but that he would have to "build the bridge".

Post 1269 - The Berners are loyal only to themselves. They proved this when they refused even to accept the endorsement of Hillary by their movement's leader. Many of their most vocal advocates had little idea how the process worked when this cycle began, yet they loudly condemned it as "rigged" against their candidate.


Post 1278 - To answer the question about what the Democrats do to get them back, I don't think there is anything which can be done. No party could meet all the conditions and accomodations demanded by the various factions of Sanders wing, from fracking to term limits to trade to minimum wage to personal apologies from Hillary and public floggings of DWS. And, of course, anything short of total capitulation by the DNC would require "compromise" by the Berners. And compromise, to them, is a mortal sin.

So I think the Democratic Party soldiers on. The Berners have overplayed their hand.

So I think I pretty accurately summarized your statements. How do you think your comments are received by Sanders supporters ? Do you think it makes them want to be part of your party ? Does it show a willingness to compromise on your part ? I don't know how to put it any simpler than this -- continually blaming and insulting Sanders supporters is not helping you win. The facts indicate the Democratic Party is not doing very well right now and you should be looking at ways to gain support from both inside and outside the party. I'm sorry if that pisses you off to the point that you feel the need to insult me personally.

You did pretty accurately summarize my statements. The thing is that the first two have little commentary and mostly fact. The first contains the state chairman's quote. She said Perez would have to "build the bridge". Those were her words. She want Perez to cater to her.

As for the second, that was the Berner mantra, almost as much as Trump. It was rigged. Doig screamed it. Until, of course, he educated himself and decided it wasn't rigged. And if the Berners had followed the plea of their leader to throw in behind Hillary, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Again, facts with very little commentary.

The third statement, I'll admit, was opinion and prediction. I think it was a fair extrapolation from the first two statements, though. And I'd be happy to argue the point with any hard core Berners here, some with annotations.

You took the cheap shot by the way you oversimplified my post, but that's fine. I didn't insult you personally. I didn't say you were an a**hole. I said you haven't taken a stand on the issues and that you are a rabble rouser. If you think that is a personal insult, you are not ready for prime time.

But, I don't want anyone to feel personally insulted, so I will offer you an apology. Accept it or not. It is sincere, but it is not a free pass.

Bernie has lost credibility with many. He was my guy and I was proud to vote for him. I suffered his petulant fans through the remainder of the campaign, despite their ignorance of the system and their willingness to burn it down if Bernie didn't win. And I watched as they turned their backs on Bernie and then on the American people. And then I watched as Bernie turned his back on the Party.

This happened. This is recorded history. You can look it up.

Bernie was a Democrat. He said that even if he lost the election he would remain a Democrat. He signed documents in New Hampshire as a Democrat. And then, after the election, he says he is no longer a Democrat. A man of his word, Bernie doesn't keep his word. And people who say that Bernie's personal integrity is everything just give him a pass.

It doesn't help when I find out he has a seven-figure deal for a book he has been working on during the campaign, and which came out in November 2016.

It is wishful thinking on the part of the Berners to believe this is some type of pitched battle. It would be great to have them in the party, but they ask too high a price. A party cannot govern if it does not win. The Democratic Party must retain its current base and regain its traditional base among working men and women. There are changes which need to made which should have the effect of attracting some Berners, but we cannot simply hand the keys over to them.

I read this somewhere about libertarians: "They are sore losers who smash the game board if they lose. They think that if they don't win, the game is rigged against them and must be destroyed." Sound like anyone you know?

[The Feral Slasher]

You did pretty accurately summarize my statements. The thing is that the first two have little commentary and mostly fact. The first contains the state chairman's quote. She said Perez would have to "build the bridge". Those were her words. She want Perez to cater to her.

As for the second, that was the Berner mantra, almost as much as Trump. It was rigged. Doig screamed it. Until, of course, he educated himself and decided it wasn't rigged. And if the Berners had followed the plea of their leader to throw in behind Hillary, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Again, facts with very little commentary.

The third statement, I'll admit, was opinion and prediction. I think it was a fair extrapolation from the first two statements, though. And I'd be happy to argue the point with any hard core Berners here, some with annotations.

You took the cheap shot by the way you oversimplified my post, but that's fine. I didn't insult you personally. I didn't say you were an a**hole. I said you haven't taken a stand on the issues and that you are a rabble rouser. If you think that is a personal insult, you are not ready for prime time.

But, I don't want anyone to feel personally insulted, so I will offer you an apology. Accept it or not. It is sincere, but it is not a free pass.

Bernie has lost credibility with many. He was my guy and I was proud to vote for him. I suffered his petulant fans through the remainder of the campaign, despite their ignorance of the system and their willingness to burn it down if Bernie didn't win. And I watched as they turned their backs on Bernie and then on the American people. And then I watched as Bernie turned his back on the Party.

This happened. This is recorded history. You can look it up.

Bernie was a Democrat. He said that even if he lost the election he would remain a Democrat. He signed documents in New Hampshire as a Democrat. And then, after the election, he says he is no longer a Democrat. A man of his word, Bernie doesn't keep his word. And people who say that Bernie's personal integrity is everything just give him a pass.

It doesn't help when I find out he has a seven-figure deal for a book he has been working on during the campaign, and which came out in November 2016.

It is wishful thinking on the part of the Berners to believe this is some type of pitched battle. It would be great to have them in the party, but they ask too high a price. A party cannot govern if it does not win. The Democratic Party must retain its current base and regain its traditional base among working men and women. There are changes which need to made which should have the effect of attracting some Berners, but we cannot simply hand the keys over to them.

I read this somewhere about libertarians: "They are sore losers who smash the game board if they lose. They think that if they don't win, the game is rigged against them and must be destroyed." Sound like anyone you know?

I should have realized a long time ago that you took the "betrayal" by Bernie Sanders supporters personally and that you blame them for the election of Donald Trump. I think that makes it difficult to have a meaningful or productive conversation, so I'll let you and others continue that conversation without me.

[Redbirds Fan]

I should have realized a long time ago that you took the "betrayal" by Bernie Sanders supporters personally and that you blame them for the election of Donald Trump. I think that makes it difficult to have a meaningful or productive conversation, so I'll let you and others continue that conversation without me.

You are right about me taking it personally. Maybe partly because I promised Democratic friends that he was the guy. I'm not so pissed off with Bernie, though. I understand his situation. (He still needs to give me a personal apology, though.) I try not to take too many political things personally, but I had a feeling this could possibly turn out bad.

I hate to see you drop out of the conversation, and will promise not to reply or antagonize if it will keep you involved.

[Judge Jude]

speaking as a non-combatant, I really respect these recent exchanges and I hope there is room for more. hardfought but productive feedback is exactly what all of us need. it's difficult - but it's worth it.

[The Feral Slasher]

You are right about me taking it personally. Maybe partly because I promised Democratic friends that he was the guy. I'm not so pissed off with Bernie, though. I understand his situation. (He still needs to give me a personal apology, though.) I try not to take too many political things personally, but I had a feeling this could possibly turn out bad.

I hate to see you drop out of the conversation, and will promise not to reply or antagonize if it will keep you involved.

It's not about you being antagonizing or anything like that. I think I've said enough. Anything I add from here on out will probably be just more of the same...time to let some new voices enter the discussion if they want to continue it.

[senorsheep]

I agree completely--a 10% increase on something we already spend 600 billion a year is absurd.

I might even feel a little better about it if the increase was 11.38%. That would at least suggest to me that he had outlined some strategic objectives, determined what military changes would be required to meet them, and then calculated the costs accordingly. 10% is a number you just pull out of your ass with no actual thought given.

Military-industrial complex guy: "The military is perilously degraded! We need to rebuild it."
Trump: "Yeah, I saw that on Fox. What do you need?"
MIC guy: "A 20% spending increase ought to do it."
Trump. "No can do. I promised the taxpayers we'd stop wasting their money. How about 10%?"
MIC guy: "Sold!"
Trump: "Art of the deal, baby!"

[gcstomp]

The proposed increase of US military budget, just the increase part, would be roughly equal to between 80% and 100% of Russia's ENTIRE military budget. The US spends more than 1/3rd, 36% of the entire planets military spending, near 200 countries. And this is important why? SO that pockets of already wealthy people can further enrich themselves while playing with the global monopoly board.

[revo]

I might even feel a little better about it if the increase was 11.38%. That would at least suggest to me that he had outlined some strategic objectives, determined what military changes would be required to meet them, and then calculated the costs accordingly. 10% is a number you just pull out of your ass with no actual thought given.

Hasn't that been the M.O. of this entire regime so far?

[Hornsby]

Trump seems to be holding his ground regarding Anti-Semitism...today he seemed to blame his opposition, much like he blames them for "paid protesters". Meeting with a group of State Attornies General, he had this to say:

WASHINGTON — Asked about the recent wave of anti-Semitic attacks and threats across the nation, President Trump on Tuesday told a group of state attorneys general that "sometimes it's the reverse," Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro said of Trump’s comments in his and other officials' meeting with the president.

"He just said, 'Sometimes it's the reverse, to make people — or to make others — look bad,' and he used the word 'reverse' I would say two to three times in his comments," Shapiro said. "He did correctly say at the top that it was reprehensible."

Asked for further information about the purpose of the president's comments, Shapiro only said, "I really don't know what he means, or why he said that,” adding that Trump said he would be speaking about the issue in his remarks on Tuesday night.

Saying that he hoped to see clarification from the president in those remarks, Shapiro added, "It didn't make a whole lot of sense to me.”

https://www.facebook.com/notes/buzzfeed-news/trump-says-sometimes-its-the-reverse-when-asked-about-anti-semitic-threats-and-a/1422820731072274

I honestly have to wonder at this point what the Neo Nazis that seem to be running this administration hope to accomplish by this kind of tactic. Do they think that the people are that stupid? Do they hope to just anesthetize the population to this sort of thing? Doesn't this have to backfire on them sooner rather than later?

[Gregg]

Was last night his best speech? I was out of pocket and did not hear it. The few reports that I read today said it was good.