President Donald Trump

[cardboardbox]

Was this supposed to make him look better or worse?

maybe he's letting you decide?

[Sour Masher]

I'm unclear why you posted that transcript without commentary. Do you think those attacking Milo are just attacking someone they hate without actually listening to the nuanced, complex argument he thinks he is making?

I am aware that he attempted to qualify his case, but his argument is still clearly in favor of relationships between underaged boys and older men and women (he makes a case for women elsewhere).

I am also aware of what he said with Rogen about how he attended parties where "very, very young boys" were there to gratify much older men. His emphasis of their young age after previously suggesting 13-14 isn't disturbingly young for much older adults to engage in sexual relationships with, suggest even he considered them too young. But he didn't seem to have enough of a problem with that to leave to parties or report the behavior to police. To me, it is clear, he witnessed crimes and did nothing to intervene or report them, because of his view that we are "too hung up on this child abuse stuff."

[DMT]

The guy's a f*$king scumbag and the sooner he disappears from the public eye the better.

[DJBeasties]

I just posted it for reference. I had seen it only without the rest of the conversation. Milo blew his own face up on this one. It's a topic society doesn't play with even in the name of free speech martyrdom.

[heyelander]

so If I try and read that without going all splody-head... it makes me think of a couple of things...

How sad is the culture that gay youth grow up in, that often their main source of guidance and social acceptance comes from older gay predators? I go back and forth on calling them predators since it's probably a cycle that has been going on for generations, and probably did have some good points in more tragic times. The solution here seems to be to create a better culture of acceptance that allows for youth to explore their sexuality without fear and confusion.

It also makes me wonder where the same level of visceral outrage is over trying kids as young as 12 as adults and locking them up for years... A 14 year old was sentenced to life without parole. If we are going to question Milo's argument that different people have different ages of consent, how do we allow for trying children as adults for crimes?

[Sour Masher]

It also makes me wonder where the same level of visceral outrage is over trying kids as young as 12 as adults and locking them up for years... A 14 year old was sentenced to life without parole. If we are going to question Milo's argument that different people have different ages of consent, how do we allow for trying children as adults for crimes?

That is a good point. I know there have been some pretty extreme cases in terms of how young someone has been tried as an adult, and I believe there is a racial component to it, with young minorities more often being tried as adults. The youngest to ever be tried were 12 and 13 year old siblings who killed their father's girlfriend. They said they killed her, and wanted to kill their father and another person, because the third adult was sexually abusing them, and their father and his girlfriend ignored and dismissed their pleas for help. I don't know enough about the case to know what was what, but regardless, your point is equally valid.

I think there is inconsistency on this issue, because we have two natural tendancies: 1. side with children over adults who abuse or exploit them and 2. side with victims over offenders who we want to see punished for harming victims. When a child is the offender victimizing/abusing/raping/murdering, our desire for punishment and retribution often overrides our understanding of cognitive development. There is also the issue in play of whether our judicial system should aim first for rehabilitation or punishment, or equal parts of both. We focus more on rehabitition for young offenders, so those seeking punishment want young offenders tried as adults, because adults are more often punished rather than rehabilitated.

I'm not judging the desire for punishment, btw. I can understand it in many cases. And I'm not sure all offenders are capable of being rehabilitated. But I also recognize how cognitively different young people are from adults. They are more easily mainipulated into actions, less likely to fully understand the ramifications of actions, and more maleable and capable of evolving with behavior modification therapies, counseling, etc. But it is still hard to argue against someone's desire for retribution, even against a young offender, if that young offender committed a horrible crime against someone's loved one.

[GwynnInTheHall]

so If I try and read that without going all splody-head... it makes me think of a couple of things...

How sad is the culture that gay youth grow up in, that often their main source of guidance and social acceptance comes from older gay predators? I go back and forth on calling them predators since it's probably a cycle that has been going on for generations, and probably did have some good points in more tragic times. The solution here seems to be to create a better culture of acceptance that allows for youth to explore their sexuality without fear and confusion.

It also makes me wonder where the same level of visceral outrage is over trying kids as young as 12 as adults and locking them up for years... A 14 year old was sentenced to life without parole. If we are going to question Milo's argument that different people have different ages of consent, how do we allow for trying children as adults for crimes?

I've gone back and forth on this topic.

We, as a society, Hyper sexualize youth and then tell those same young people not to act on it (their sexuality). We have commercials, TV Shows, Films, all glorifying young love and sex. We market clothing, makeup and other consumables to that age group, using models FROM that age group and then again tell them--Don't do it.

Age of consent in this country ranges from 16-18 however you CAN get married younger than that and have the SAME sex which was illegal before, but is now OK because your parents said you could get married at 14-15 and so NOW it's OK to have sex.

As Heylander mentioned, we hold kids accountable for their actions as young as 11-12 in regard other illegal activities,. How can someone be old enough to sentence to life for murder, but not old enough to have sex?

Age of consent varies around the world, we accept the bombardment of sexuality in our everyday lives--Why then can't we see the merit in an argument that sexuality and those who are ready for it, is an individual case by case issue and not something we should throw a one size fits all solution at?

Milo is a douchebag poser at best and a vile fucker at his worst (I really detest him), but he isn't completely off base if what he was trying to say is that some people are ready to have sex earlier than others and that an arbitrary age limit is just that arbitrary.

I know I'll catch some heat for this, but remember I also have 2 teenage daughters, one's active sexualy and the other is not and age has nothing to do with it in any regard. It's completely the maturity of the individual.

Now I am off to marry my fiance, who is 17 years younger than I am.

[Hornsby]

I just posted it for reference. I had seen it only without the rest of the conversation. Milo blew his own face up on this one. It's a topic society doesn't play with even in the name of free speech martyrdom.

He's a pederast, someone who is attracted to a younger boy...generally post-pubescent.

And it's a topic that society doesn't play with for good reason...And you have to have an artificial age limit, to protect those who AREN'T ready. Just remember, human brains aren't fully formed until about the age of 25...

[GwynnInTheHall]

He's a pederast, someone who is attracted to a younger boy...generally post-pubescent.

And it's a topic that society doesn't play with for good reason...And you have to have an artificial age limit, to protect those who AREN'T ready. Just remember, human brains aren't fully formed until about the age of 25...

Then why do we let them drink at 21, Vote and Die for our country at 18?

[Hornsby]

Then why do we let them drink at 21, Vote and Die for our country at 18?

Because it's fairly recent research, and because the military needs brains of mush to follow orders blindly.

[chancellor]

Then why do we let them drink at 21, Vote and Die for our country at 18?

Because Frank Lautenberg sucked. I'm proud that my state was the last to succumb to the financial blackmail of MLDA.

[Sour Masher]

I've gone back and forth on this topic.

Milo is a douchebag poser at best and a vile fucker at his worst (I really detest him), but he isn't completely off base if what he was trying to say is that some people are ready to have sex earlier than others and that an arbitrary age limit is just that arbitrary.

Milo isn't focusing on relationships between those of equal power and age. He is trying to justify/normalize relationships between older adults and much younger boys who are easily exploited/used/manipulated as they go through their sexual maturation. The power and cognitive inequality between those young boys on the Hollywood party boats and the older affluent men preying upon them couldn't be more clear. Just as it is clear how child brides are exploited by older men.

My sister developed quickly, and physically many mistook her for over 18 even when she was 12. She entered into a relationship with a 24 year old guy when she was 15. Despite what she thought, she was not emotionally or mentally prepared for the relationship. He manipulated her into unprotected sex, and her first child was with him. She eventually found out he had two other children with two other girls around the same time. He now provides for none of them, because he is serving hard time for repeated drug dealing and assaults. I'm sure she could have been manipulated by someone her own age as well, and maybe she could have been manipulated at 18 just as easily, but the relationship was clearly exploitive and wrong, which is why she and my mother, who knew about it at the time, kept it from me. I'm 14 years older than her, didn't live in the same area, and so I was out of the loop.

My mother also dated a man she was aware was convicted of having sex with a 13 year old girl when he was 28. She didn't see it as a big deal, because she had relationships with older men when she was that young. Of course, she admits early childhood sexual abuse led her to develop the desire to have these relationships, and she admits that they were unbalanced, unhealthy, and exploitive relationships. But still still didn't think they were all that bad, or that he was a bad guy. Amazingly, he wasn't the worst ex-con she brought home. She met a few through my uncle, who is still serving a prison term for murder. One was a rapist who came to live with us after he got out of prison. He claimed to just be a muderer, who killed a guy in a bar fight, but later we found out he and some friends abducted a 15 year old girl, raped her, and left her for dead in the woods (he told me the story himself in graphic detail, when trying to scare me into silence, and it was later verified; I myself was 15 at the time, I and guess he thought letting me know what he was capable of doing to a 15 year old was important). I walked in on him trying to rape my mother once; I threatened him with a knife, which I slept with while he lived with us, because he was a volatile drunk. He left, and ended up back in prison for violation of parole, and swore to kill me when he got out, because he thought I informed his parole officer of his breaking parole.

All of this to say, I've seen first hand the long term trauma and damage sexual encounters between adults and young people can have. They are often exploitive, unbalanced, and traumatic. I realize they are not all the same, and their are gradations when talking about them, but I think it is extremely dangerous to downplay "all the child abuse stuff" in an effort to normalize relationships between adults and children (men in their 30s vs 13-14 year olds in Milo's case). That taboo exists for many legitimate reasons. I'm glad to see the backlash against Milo for this, and I'm glad he will no longer have as big a platform to spew his hate and harmful ideas going forward, although I doubt whoever replaces him at Breitbart will be a paragon of noble ideals.

[DJBeasties]

MILO STATEMENT POSTED ON FB:

https://www.facebook.com/myiannopoulos/posts/852600161544547

[Sour Masher]

MILO STATEMENT POSTED ON FB:

https://www.facebook.com/myiannopoul...52600161544547

Milo is clearly intelligent and an eloquent communicator when he wants to be. Those qualities make his frequent juvenile trolling and hate-speech all the more perplexing and infuriating. He would have gone right along doing more of the same if he didn't, at last, share thoughts on a subject that his free-speech base, who was often very quick to defend his attacks on women and minorities, found abhorrent. They praised him for being a shocking troll that disturbed the left, who they felt were overly sensitive PC snowflakes. Then they recoiled in horror as he pushed the same boundaries of decency on a subject they felt more morally attuned with.

I see some parallels between Milo and Trump. The GOP cultivated an environment that allowed Trump to rise. They felt amused as he attacked the left, and used him as a tool they thought they could control. Then, many, reacted in horror as he turned on them, and rose to the top of their party, stepping on many of their leaders and most sacred tenants on his rise to the top.

Edit: I do find it amazing that in a statement that suggests some intelligence and recognition of the need for restraint and restrictions, he ends it with "I want everyone in America, the greatest country in the history of human civilisation, to be able to be, do, read and say anything. I will never stop fighting for your right to do that." This is precisely not what he says earlier in his defense of himself. He does admit earlier that there are things we should not say and certainly things we should not do. And yet, at the end, he goes right back to the mantra that lead him to say offensive things for years, and condone abhorrent behavior. It is also hard to believe he is sincere when he starts off emphasizing he is a victim, when he has repeatedly said he is not, and bashed others for claiming victimhood.

[Judge Jude]

my condolences, Sour Masher, and we appreciate your candor.