President Donald Trump

[Hornsby]

There are 48,500 undocumented students in Pennsylvania public schools,most in Philly, a district in such financial turmoil that they are lacking nurses in some schools. Many of those undocumented students speak little English which requires additional teachers support and funding. This places an enormous financial burden on the deeply financially stressed district and no doubt compromises the education of all Philadelphia students.
How is it right to neglect these students of Philadelphia, and especially the documented immigrant students, and provide them less than they are entitled to because some folks didn't immigrate legally? With all due respect, but you could not be more wrong to say a problem doesn't exist. And I'm sure if it exists in Philly, it exists in just about every major city.

You provide one big number, but no corresponding documentation. You say 48,500, but then you generalize by saying "many" speak little English...what is that? 20%, 30%, 50%? And again, you speculate that there is neglect to the students of Philly schools without any proof. There are any number of reasons that the school district isn't functioning well financially other than undocumented students.

[nots]

You provide one big number, but no corresponding documentation. You say 48,500, but then you generalize by saying "many" speak little English...what is that? 20%, 30%, 50%? And again, you speculate that there is neglect to the students of Philly schools without any proof. There are any number of reasons that the school district isn't functioning well financially other than undocumented students.

Sure there a lot of issues with Philly schools, but thousands of additional undocumented students spreading the thin resources out even more thinly quite clearly isnt improving things.
Here is an article about the state of Philly schools, and while it blissfully ignores the possibility that providing services for so many undocumented kids is part of the problem, it does provide proof for you on the neglect within the district.

http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2014/05/07/30philly.h33.html

[gcstomp]

The posting is about how deeply underfunded the Philly schools are, and have been for decades. The article doesnt mention anything about immigrants specifically, just that its "the most underresourced urban school district in the nation." One way to look at the issue is to try to find the most undersourced urban school district in nation, and just arbitrarily blame a group for the issue. And it works for any issue, so thats an easy button. You can pick the city with worst homeless issue, or crime issue, or unwed mothers, or drug use, or whatever is wrong in country, and simply apply your answer, be it them damn illegals, or even refine it, and blame a subgroup, and blame muslims, or mexicans. I do not think that is the way to humanely view this.

The district has been vastly underfunded for decades. The cost of a single stealth bomber is over 1 billion, that would fix not just philly but the top 10 school districts, allow hiring of educators, computers in classroom, job readiness training for a generation, but have zero effect on military spending rank. USA will always be # 1 on that list, greater than the next 12 largest country military budgets combined, so go America!

As pointed out, how do you quantify undocumented? People who were born into terrible circumstance, but an overview from a high enough point looks like they were just born a bit on that bit of land mass rather than this bit of land mass, the lines on the map arent seen from high up, and the people born are the same, just cosmic happenstance results them in being in untenable position or an american. I have mixed feelings on this. We maybe could do a cost benefit analysis, Do immigrants add more than they cost? And simply deal with it as if they were not humans, but numbers, as numbers are easy to move around. On the micro level I know every family has a story, and its often deeply moving and I cant treat people same a digits on a calculator. My wife is a teacher, and told me of a family that walked, husband, wife, infant, and child, so a group of 4, and it took them literally a couple of months, and they ended up in south florida. They did this to escape sure death, I have heard a horror story that does not need to be repeated, other than saying they escaped death and had no choice but to leave. How can we wrap our heads around what they have been through, and what is right to be done with them?

I just hope we all appreciate everything is about the grey, and weighing particular circumstances. If you hold onto a black and white, as in they are illegals so must go, period, that is a savage pov, and there will be a reckoning, an equally savage response, as it is not same to move desperate people as it is quiet numbers on the page. We must protect borders, but we respect people.

[DMT]

Great post!

[Teenwolf]

You were all debating how to define "alt-right", and whether following the alt-right makes you a racist, etc. This article was good at differentiating between

I'm a huge follower of Bill Maher, but I was really nervous about him interviewing the leading voice for the alt-right, Milo Yiannopoulos. Just like SNL having Trump host, I think that giving a voice to these scumbags by normalizing them is the wrong approach. However, given the way that Piers Morgan and Tomi Lahren were both made to look like chumps in recent weeks, I had some faith that Bill could hold Milo's feet to the fire. Instead, they basically sat around that fire singing kumbaya. Milo played right into Bill's old man blind spots of easy laughs, and even admitted that people may be hurt by both Milo and his own jokes, but that it's never bothered him personally so long as he's "speaking to truth" or some BS. They make a bunch of unfunny homophobic and transphobic jokes, and pal around.

Milo set the bait with an offensive joke, saying that he would never hire gays because "you can't trust them to show up to work on time. Too much drugs, too much sex, they never show up to work, always making excuses. No, no, no. I mean, not as bad as women, but I don't hire gays." Then gets a few groans from the audience (of course), and immediately starts pointing his finger at the crowd saying "Look at you. You're easy. Very easily triggered, it's pathetic."

Sounded a lot like CBB, baldgriff, chancellor, and Bernie Brewer, earlier in this very thread. Making jokes about being called "racist" or "islamophobe", etc. Interesting that you're all picking up the Breitbart talking points. Especially interesting, considering that some of you claim to identify more as Libertarians than Conservatives.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...alt-right.html

The alt-right is the polar opposite of libertarianism.

Analyzing a subset of the alt-right who call themselves “neoreactionaries,” Vox’s Dylan Matthews explains this important distinction, “Most modern libertarians are individualists, motivated by a desire to prevent the masses from oppressing the individual…

“Neoreactionaries are not individualists… neoreaction places huge value on group membership and group loyalty,” Matthews says.
“They are tribalists, and for the most part—let’s not mince words—they are racists.”

The bolded text sounds very much in line with baldgriff's definition of libertarianism, I think. However, the alt-right uses this very select ideology with libertarian appeal as a way to draw them into the more scummy debate points from their racist agenda. When you support ideologues with racist intentions, it doesn't matter what your personal beliefs are, you align with racists in action, both in the form of hate crimes, and targeted legislation.

That's what Bill Maher did, slapping knees with Milo, while tacitly encouraging people to discriminate against gay people. It's really selfish, deciding that your right to make offensive jokes presides over others' rights to not hear hate speech spoken about them. The palpable white fragility of the right wing is producing terrorist extremists like Dylann Roof, the Quebec mosque killing of 6, the planned mass terror attack on a synagogue, and others. Be careful who you march with.

[nots]

The posting is about how deeply underfunded the Philly schools are, and have been for decades. The article doesnt mention anything about immigrants specifically, just that its "the most underresourced urban school district in the nation." One way to look at the issue is to try to find the most undersourced urban school district in nation, and just arbitrarily blame a group for the issue. And it works for any issue, so thats an easy button. You can pick the city with worst homeless issue, or crime issue, or unwed mothers, or drug use, or whatever is wrong in country, and simply apply your answer, be it them damn illegals, or even refine it, and blame a subgroup, and blame muslims, or mexicans. I do not think that is the way to humanely view this.

The district has been vastly underfunded for decades. The cost of a single stealth bomber is over 1 billion, that would fix not just philly but the top 10 school districts, allow hiring of educators, computers in classroom, job readiness training for a generation, but have zero effect on military spending rank. USA will always be # 1 on that list, greater than the next 12 largest country military budgets combined, so go America!

As pointed out, how do you quantify undocumented? People who were born into terrible circumstance, but an overview from a high enough point looks like they were just born a bit on that bit of land mass rather than this bit of land mass, the lines on the map arent seen from high up, and the people born are the same, just cosmic happenstance results them in being in untenable position or an american. I have mixed feelings on this. We maybe could do a cost benefit analysis, Do immigrants add more than they cost? And simply deal with it as if they were not humans, but numbers, as numbers are easy to move around. On the micro level I know every family has a story, and its often deeply moving and I cant treat people same a digits on a calculator. My wife is a teacher, and told me of a family that walked, husband, wife, infant, and child, so a group of 4, and it took them literally a couple of months, and they ended up in south florida. They did this to escape sure death, I have heard a horror story that does not need to be repeated, other than saying they escaped death and had no choice but to leave. How can we wrap our heads around what they have been through, and what is right to be done with them?

I just hope we all appreciate everything is about the grey, and weighing particular circumstances. If you hold onto a black and white, as in they are illegals so must go, period, that is a savage pov, and there will be a reckoning, an equally savage response, as it is not same to move desperate people as it is quiet numbers on the page. We must protect borders, but we respect people.

I linked the article in response to Hornsby's request for documentation in the Philly school system. I purposefully used a pro-education link so as not to be charged with spreading anti-education spending propoganda. I don't accept most of the link's reasoning for the neglect in the Philly schools, but I think it certainly corroborates my opinion that there is neglect. FWIW, the neglect is not limited to Philly schools. I use Philadelphia because I read their two newspapers daily and it is the area I am most fimilar with.
My entire point of posting this is to refute Hornsby's claim that illigal immigration is 'a politicians issue' and that we are looking 'for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist'. Additional students without additional funding is a problem for Philly schools and is unfair to the students who should be there. You can add other items to the list, but saying thousands of undocumented kids isn't part of the problem is willfully naive.

[DMT]

Good to see kleptocracy in action and the people defending it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-costs-trips-security-taxpayer-barack-obama-month-year-a7586261.html

"Donald Trump’s family’s trips have cost taxpayers nearly as much in a month as Barack Obama’s cost in an entire year."

[nots]

Good to see kleptocracy in action and the people defending it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-costs-trips-security-taxpayer-barack-obama-month-year-a7586261.html

"Donald Trump’s family’s trips have cost taxpayers nearly as much in a month as Barack Obama’s cost in an entire year."

I couldn't agree more.....a staggering sum of money is being spent. I have never been against Presidential excursions...not when Bush was going to Crawford or when Obama was going to Hawaii. Those guys work hard and they can lead from wherever they are. People that criticize that usually do so for partisan reasons. However, this is different. He's basically asking to maintain 3 full time residences (WH, NYC and FL), plus his family is so large and has so many worldwide ventures creating more expense. I think he needs to set an example and pay for NYC out of his pocket and his kids business trips too. He will make up for the expenses when he gets out of the WH and can write a book and go on the lecture circuit. It's just too much money.

[Bernie Brewer]

Sounded a lot like CBB, baldgriff, chancellor, and Bernie Brewer, earlier in this very thread. Making jokes about being called "racist" or "islamophobe", etc. Interesting that you're all picking up the Breitbart talking points. Especially interesting, considering that some of you claim to identify more as Libertarians than Conservatives.

Um, you go boy. You keep fighting the good fight (as you define it) because you're apparently very good at it, so long as no one disagrees. I wasn't aware that I was a fan of a Beitbart, but thank you for telling me.

For someone who claims to be a big fan of Bill Maher you apparently have no appreciation for humor. Not that Bil Maher is that funny, but whatevs.

[Hornsby]

I linked the article in response to Hornsby's request for documentation in the Philly school system. I purposefully used a pro-education link so as not to be charged with spreading anti-education spending propoganda. I don't accept most of the link's reasoning for the neglect in the Philly schools, but I think it certainly corroborates my opinion that there is neglect. FWIW, the neglect is not limited to Philly schools. I use Philadelphia because I read their two newspapers daily and it is the area I am most fimilar with.
My entire point of posting this is to refute Hornsby's claim that illigal immigration is 'a politicians issue' and that we are looking 'for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist'. Additional students without additional funding is a problem for Philly schools and is unfair to the students who should be there. You can add other items to the list, but saying thousands of undocumented kids isn't part of the problem is willfully naive.

Again, the problem is many faceted. Just about all urban schools are underfunded, overworked, and underpaid. My point was that blaming undocumented immigrants for the plight of the system is simply wrong. Are they a part of the problem? but to what extent we don't know. Here's your quote:

How is it right to neglect these students of Philadelphia, and especially the documented immigrant students, and provide them less than they are entitled to because some folks didn't immigrate legally?

Which makes it sound like the neglect is happening because of illegal immigration...

I think that Glen's post touched on the subject in many ways that I didn't. It's just not fair to blame a specific group without factual evidence that they're the cause of the problem.

And yes, I do believe that it's a political issue and little more at this point. Trump may have gotten elected because he played on peoples fears, it certainly didn't hurt him. I'd like to see a study done on the net positive/negative that undocumented people bring to this country. I don't know how it could be measured, but it certainly would be interesting.

[cardboardbox]

Sounded a lot like CBB, baldgriff, chancellor, and Bernie Brewer, earlier in this very thread. Making jokes about being called "racist" or "islamophobe", etc. Interesting that you're all picking up the Breitbart talking points.

I've never intentionally went there, so how would I know their talking points?

[cardboardbox]

Um, you go boy. You keep fighting the good fight (as you define it) because you're apparently very good at it, so long as no one disagrees. I wasn't aware that I was a fan of a Beitbart, but thank you for telling me.

For someone who claims to be a big fan of Bill Maher you apparently have no appreciation for humor. Not that Bil Maher is that funny, but whatevs.

Bill is an idiot.

[DMT]

Bill is an idiot.

He's a pompous ass but certainly not an idiot.

[Hornsby]

Good to see kleptocracy in action and the people defending it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-costs-trips-security-taxpayer-barack-obama-month-year-a7586261.html

"Donald Trump’s family’s trips have cost taxpayers nearly as much in a month as Barack Obama’s cost in an entire year."

We can post all sorts of fun facts about the blindness of the Trump Administration...the National Endowment for the Arts budget, which Trump wants to eliminate: $148m
Estimated annual cost (to NYC) to protect Trump Tower: $183m. That's just to NYC taxpayers. And that's just a drop in the proverbial bucket of the costs for the 1st family.

Is there nobody in his sphere of influence that has the guts to tell him that this is going to end horribly for him and the GOP if it doesn't stop, and soon? If he wants to fund it himself, fine. But the taxpayers are being gouged while Trump makes money off of the trips.

[Bernie Brewer]

I've never intentionally went there, so how would I know their talking points?

You know that the from the loftiest peaks of the moral high ground where extremists on the left like teenwolf live, you can see all things, even those things that haven't happened yet. It's sort of like the movie Minority Report, in which they could predict who is going to commit a crime and lock them up before they ever did. Even though we haven't gone there, nibblenuts like teenwolf, know that from our posting history that we are likely to go there at some point. Therefore, he needs to eradicate the vermin that he perceives us to be, before we do something like crazy like have a conversation and voice counter-opinion. Teenwolf for President.