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  • Originally posted by GwynnInTheHall View Post
    Then you'd be against Right to Work policies?
    I have actually written and erased 2 other responses to your question. Below is my 3rd attempt, but it might actually be the worst of the 3.
    A tough issue for me as I feel as though I am evolving on the issue, or at least reexamining my position. I don't believe people should be compelled to join a union against their will. I also have an enormous problem with folks not joining a union, but gaining the pay and benefits that their co-workers negotiated for and paying their dues for representation. Until a couple of months ago, I was unaware of how severe the decline in Union membership has been and it's troubling to me.
    I would love to hear other more knowledgeable posters from both sides make their argument.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by baldgriff View Post
      Which is why we take care of the young - feed them, clothe them, provide them a place to sleep and play. We also educate them so that they can learn skills in order to then be on their own. Who ever said deny them food?

      Give a man a fish he can eat for a night - Teach him to fish and he can eat for life.
      The politicians who cut food stamps from millions of people, that's who. The same ones who want to eliminate CHIP and early head start, programs designed for those exact reasons. Democrats may be hypocrites when it comes to helping the poor while also catering to their big donors on Wall Street, but their efforts to help children and the poor are orders of magnitude ahead of Republican efforts.
      If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
      - Terence McKenna

      Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)

      How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige

      Comment


      • Originally posted by nots View Post
        I have actually written and erased 2 other responses to your question. Below is my 3rd attempt, but it might actually be the worst of the 3.
        A tough issue for me as I feel as though I am evolving on the issue, or at least reexamining my position. I don't believe people should be compelled to join a union against their will. I also have an enormous problem with folks not joining a union, but gaining the pay and benefits that their co-workers negotiated for and paying their dues for representation. Until a couple of months ago, I was unaware of how severe the decline in Union membership has been and it's troubling to me.
        I would love to hear other more knowledgeable posters from both sides make their argument.
        It's a thoughtful post, and points out one of the issues which troubles many people.
        If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. - Karl Popper

        Comment


        • Originally posted by nots View Post
          It's not accurate. I own a small seasonal restaurant. This is my 19th year. If we had to pay cooks, bus boys and others $15/hr plus the additional increase in payroll taxes, it wouldnt be worth the time and energy. I would literally close the next day. We hire only high school and college kids fwiw.
          I don't know much about restaurants except they are a lot of work and many of the new ones close in the first year.

          Question...at sit-down restaurants, where people tip 20% or more, depending upon service, I have seen cases where they pay their employees more than minimum wage, have a "no tips" policy, and supposedly make up for it with higher menu prices. Is that something that is practical? It seems good in theory, although I can see where it would penalize the best servers who could otherwise make a lot in tips. What do you think?
          If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. - Karl Popper

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Redbirds Fan View Post
            I don't know much about restaurants except they are a lot of work and many of the new ones close in the first year.

            Question...at sit-down restaurants, where people tip 20% or more, depending upon service, I have seen cases where they pay their employees more than minimum wage, have a "no tips" policy, and supposedly make up for it with higher menu prices. Is that something that is practical? It seems good in theory, although I can see where it would penalize the best servers who could otherwise make a lot in tips. What do you think?
            Our place is seasonal in a resort town (not far from where GITH is now actually). Our customers usually tip more than 20%, so I think the waitresses would be opposed. I also think the cheapies that only tip 15% would definitely balk.
            I also think tipping is so ingrained in the US that it would take some getting used to. I remember a taxi driver running after me in Adeliade because I tipped him to give me change back. I also remember feeling like a dirtbag leaving the customary 5-10% in restaurants there. It is so counter intuitive to us not to tip.
            I think it would make for an interesting experiment, but I wouldn't want to be the experimenter.

            Comment


            • Trump continues to govern by the "how to build a dictatorship playbook" by calling the MSM the enemy of the American people. His tweet identified every major news outlet except Fox News as the enemy of the people. He also is trying to create his own biased poll by sending a media survey to his donors with questions about how unfair they think the media has been to him, so he can use those "ubiased" numbers to show how many people think the media is being unfair to him.
              Last edited by Sour Masher; 02-17-2017, 06:50 PM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sour Masher View Post
                Trump continues to govern by the "how to build a dictatorship playobook" by calling the MSM the enemy of the american people. His tweet identified every major news outlet except Fox News as the enemy of the people. He also is trying ot create his own biased poll by sending a media survey to his donors with questions about how unfair they think the media has been to him, so he can use those "ubiased" numbers to show how many people think the media is being unfair to him.
                I think both sides are acting like my toddler.
                "The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden, beyond the hugs, kisses and touching that women previously said made them uncomfortable." -NY Times

                "For a woman to come forward in the glaring lights of focus, nationally, you’ve got to start off with the presumption that at least the essence of what she’s talking about is real, whether or not she forgets facts" - Joe Biden

                Comment


                • Originally posted by cardboardbox View Post
                  I think both sides are acting like my toddler.
                  I continue to hope for the emergence of a fact-based, well researched, moderate conservative media outlet to develop to combat the extreme bias and distoration of truth Fox News typically embodies. Some of this is happening within Fox now, but I fear that rather than move Fox as a whole toward reasoned, fair reporting and ciritique, they will be purged from the network.

                  I feel like a lot of folks who identify as conservative or republican must watch Fox out of necessity, from a feeling that many other news outlets have a center-left lean (and many probably do, although to me the bigger problem is they all talk more about reality show politics, which Trump is great at, rather than real issues like poverty, education, etc). Maybe if an outlet they trusted, one that generally leaned toward their ideologies, existed and that network made the fact-based, irrefutable arguments for things like the need to investigate Russian influences in our government, or the need to protect the media and the judiciary from demonization and attack from the executive branch, maybe more folks would understand that Trump is a danger not just to liberals, but to all Americans. Instead, many seem to just think Trump is being accurate when he calls any and all critiques of him fake news, and threatens any who stand in his way.

                  Speaking of which, what do conservative folks here think of Trump asking a Texas sherriff for the name of a state senator that wants to limit asset forfeitures to cases with convictions, so he could ruin his career? As it is now, police forces can seize assets from citizens for whatever probable cause they can think of, and keep it all, even without a conviction. Trump is bigly in favor of keeping it that way. That seems like the sort of thing everyone should be against, especially conservative leaning folks who put property rights very high on their freedom list.
                  Last edited by Sour Masher; 02-17-2017, 07:07 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by baldgriff View Post
                    Having a Job is not a right. Having a job is means by which you engage in consensual transactions in order to earn money or obtain goods. If you cant find a means to provide services in education, law, human resources, welding, dry walling, singing or whatever other careers exist then to quote Animal House - "The world needs ditch diggers too."

                    The idea that I exist therefore I should get things is just pure crap.
                    I don't think you understand what right to work policies actually do.

                    Correct me if I am wrong but you stated that one of the negative byproducts of illegal immigrants working in this country and the businesses that accommodate/employ them,was the decline of unions.

                    Right to work policies are union busting legislation that pretend to do everything Taft Hartley already does.

                    Sure it might bring a handful of low paying jobs and businesses into a state, but it's the absolute worst for employees.

                    Now if you think any job, even a low paying, no benefits, poor working conditions is better than no job, then right to work is the way to go.

                    But you advocated for the unions.

                    If you support unions, livable wages, safe work environments, employees rights, you should be opposed to right for work polices.

                    There are many other political reasons for this legislation, but to keep it simple, just read up on the way if affects, workers and unions.

                    I would say, it's even more damaging than illegal immigrants and the businesses that employ them.
                    67.5

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by nots View Post
                      Our place is seasonal in a resort town (not far from where GITH is now actually). Our customers usually tip more than 20%, so I think the waitresses would be opposed. I also think the cheapies that only tip 15% would definitely balk.
                      I also think tipping is so ingrained in the US that it would take some getting used to. I remember a taxi driver running after me in Adeliade because I tipped him to give me change back. I also remember feeling like a dirtbag leaving the customary 5-10% in restaurants there. It is so counter intuitive to us not to tip.
                      I think it would make for an interesting experiment, but I wouldn't want to be the experimenter.
                      As someone who enjoyed working in a restaurant and who's income at times has included tips, I'd hate to pool tips or have them automatically added to the bill.
                      67.5

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by baldgriff View Post
                        This is the biggest cop out answer.

                        If we as a country decided that we wanted to deal with the "undocumented/illegal" immigrants that are here as a means of expediting citizenship. We can do it. In reality we as a country decided not to enforce our immigration laws and now we are trying to figure out how to deal with that mess. So stop new messes - and deal with what we have on the current plate.

                        We as a country get to define what happens in our borders - no one is dictating our immigration policy. We still own and govern all that is within the borders of our country. We can make citizenship for the millions here a reality and still keep people from adding to the problem. The reality currently is that neither party wants to deal with issues for fear of offending some ethnic group (voting block) or because they may not be able to get the labor as inexpensively.
                        Here's the issue, you're looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Eleven Million undocumented workers are here, and have been here, for on average, over a decade. They pay taxes, they go to school, they work, they raise their family, they go to church...in short, they've already assimilated in this country. Are some of them criminals? And I'm not talking about the silly canard that they're all criminals, just by being here. No, they have a criminal element just like White folks who are citizens do, just like Black folks who are citizens do, just like Asian people who are citizens do. So you arrest those who commit crimes, and do what you can to help those law abiding members of society eventually become citizens.

                        This is a politicians issue, not a real life issue...they're not here taking your job, they're not here to screw the system. They're here because where they lived before was so intolerable that they'd do anything to escape it. That is the history, and the very fabric, of America.
                        "Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
                        - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

                        "Your shitty future continues to offend me."
                        -Warren Ellis

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Hornsby View Post
                          Here's the issue, you're looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Eleven Million undocumented workers are here, and have been here, for on average, over a decade. They pay taxes, they go to school, they work, they raise their family, they go to church...in short, they've already assimilated in this country. Are some of them criminals? And I'm not talking about the silly canard that they're all criminals, just by being here. No, they have a criminal element just like White folks who are citizens do, just like Black folks who are citizens do, just like Asian people who are citizens do. So you arrest those who commit crimes, and do what you can to help those law abiding members of society eventually become citizens.

                          This is a politicians issue, not a real life issue...they're not here taking your job, they're not here to screw the system. They're here because where they lived before was so intolerable that they'd do anything to escape it. That is the history, and the very fabric, of America.
                          There are 48,500 undocumented students in Pennsylvania public schools,most in Philly, a district in such financial turmoil that they are lacking nurses in some schools. Many of those undocumented students speak little English which requires additional teachers support and funding. This places an enormous financial burden on the deeply financially stressed district and no doubt compromises the education of all Philadelphia students.
                          How is it right to neglect these students of Philadelphia, and especially the documented immigrant students, and provide them less than they are entitled to because some folks didn't immigrate legally? With all due respect, but you could not be more wrong to say a problem doesn't exist. And I'm sure if it exists in Philly, it exists in just about every major city.
                          Last edited by nots; 02-17-2017, 09:32 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by cardboardbox View Post
                            I think both sides are acting like my toddler.
                            Just as they did with Obama, but the responses couldn't be more different.
                            If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
                            - Terence McKenna

                            Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)

                            How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by nots View Post
                              There are 48,500 undocumented students in Pennsylvania public schools,most in Philly, a district in such financial turmoil that they are lacking nurses in some schools. Many of those undocumented students speak little English which requires additional teachers support and funding. This places an enormous financial burden on the deeply financially stressed district and no doubt compromises the education of all Philadelphia students.
                              How is it right to neglect these students of Philadelphia, and especially the documented immigrant students, and provide them less than they are entitled to because some folks didn't immigrate legally? With all due respect, but you could not be more wrong to say a problem doesn't exist. And I'm sure if it exists in Philly, it exists in just about every major city.
                              he's probably going to say the illegals are paying taxes like everyone else? I'm curious to find out the answer...
                              "The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden, beyond the hugs, kisses and touching that women previously said made them uncomfortable." -NY Times

                              "For a woman to come forward in the glaring lights of focus, nationally, you’ve got to start off with the presumption that at least the essence of what she’s talking about is real, whether or not she forgets facts" - Joe Biden

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sour Masher View Post
                                I continue to hope for the emergence of a fact-based, well researched, moderate conservative media outlet to develop to combat the extreme bias and distoration of truth Fox News typically embodies. Some of this is happening within Fox now, but I fear that rather than move Fox as a whole toward reasoned, fair reporting and ciritique, they will be purged from the network.

                                I feel like a lot of folks who identify as conservative or republican must watch Fox out of necessity, from a feeling that many other news outlets have a center-left lean (and many probably do, although to me the bigger problem is they all talk more about reality show politics, which Trump is great at, rather than real issues like poverty, education, etc). Maybe if an outlet they trusted, one that generally leaned toward their ideologies, existed and that network made the fact-based, irrefutable arguments for things like the need to investigate Russian influences in our government, or the need to protect the media and the judiciary from demonization and attack from the executive branch, maybe more folks would understand that Trump is a danger not just to liberals, but to all Americans. Instead, many seem to just think Trump is being accurate when he calls any and all critiques of him fake news, and threatens any who stand in his way.
                                There are centrist networks, but Republicans have veered so far right that what used to be seen as moderate is now perceived as left wing. Furthermore, the Republican party of today is so full of hypocrisy that an honest examination of the issues would fall on deaf ears because there would be total outrage at the unfair coverage.
                                If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
                                - Terence McKenna

                                Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)

                                How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige

                                Comment

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