President Donald Trump

[cardboardbox]

How many kitchen workers are paid a minimum wage? and if they were how much more would things cost?

this sounds very much like the argument against raising the minimum wage.

[Redbirds Fan]

Shut it down for a couple years.

That would address the incoming. Do you have an idea about the people already here? Most of the headlines over the past weeks have been about the travel ban and keeping people out, but now there is a developing story about the people we are deporting. At this rate, though, it would be hard to make much of a dent in the estimated eleven million undocumented immigrants in the U.S.

EDIT: I think you addressed this question while I was trying to post it.

EDIT: Where I am, I don't think we would get a project built or a meal served without undocumented workers. As I may have said here before, the thing about "shovel ready" projects is that somebody has to get out there and grab the shovel.

[nots]

That would address the incoming. Do you have an idea about the people already here? Most of the headlines over the past weeks have been about the travel ban and keeping people out, but now there is a developing story about the people we are deporting. At this rate, though, it would be hard to make much of a dent in the estimated eleven million undocumented immigrants in the U.S.

If we are going to have immigration laws, we should enforce them. If we aren't going to have them, we should have open borders. But saying because there are 11 million people here illegally it's too big a problem to do anything about, makes no sense to me whatsoever.

[cardboardbox]

That would address the incoming. Do you have an idea about the people already here? Most of the headlines over the past weeks have been about the travel ban and keeping people out, but now there is a developing story about the people we are deporting. At this rate, though, it would be hard to make much of a dent in the estimated eleven million undocumented immigrants in the U.S.

EDIT: I think you addressed this question while I was trying to post it.

There's a group on the right who want no immigrants, there's a very vocal group on the left who want no borders. I find it very hard to find a sane place in the middle somewhere.

[cardboardbox]

If we are going to have immigration laws, we should enforce them. If we aren't going to have them, we should have open borders. But saying because there are 11 million people here illegally it's too big a problem to do anything about, makes no sense to me whatsoever.

You realize that simply enforcing the existing laws would send the liberals and media into a hyperventilation frenzy?

[Redbirds Fan]

this sounds very much like the argument against raising the minimum wage.

I read a study out of Seattle which said, if I remember it correctly, that a $13 minimum wage would raise the cost of a top-of-line fast food hamburger by about 14 cents. I would pay the extra. Anyone balk at a 14 cent premium on your Jumbo Super-Burger if it meant a living wage for a single mother?

[gcstomp]

still waiting for you to tell us who you're talking about. Remember, you said the alt right is kkk without hoods so I'm really curious who here is kkk.

CBB, you are waiting for Godot. I had work for a bit, not trying to keep you and your precious misguided expectations waiting. I clearly repeated, several times, it was a question about do we have a difference in what alt-right means. I also clearly said I had no names in mind, and said it in a way that made it simply not possible to misunderstand. Please feel free to direct further questions of obvious trolling nature to my in box for me to ignore. Or else re-read my follow up posts, until you understand them. Or not. The only name that has self identified as alt-right on board in past 3 months is paleoman, with quotes provided if you read back on my past few posts.

CBB, what does alt-right mean to you. That was the question. I take it to mean the online definition if you pull up wiki, but that would mean those who are self professed supporting of alt-right, are akin to clan, which does not compute, that does not seem right to me, so I repeatedly said maybe we had a difference in definition. The 1st wiki definition pulled up from an online search:

'alt-right' or 'alternative right' is a name currently embraced by some white supremacists and white nationalists to refer to themselves and their ideology, which emphasizes preserving and protecting the white race in the United States in addition to, or over, other traditional conservative positions such as limited government, low taxes and strict law-and-order. The movement has been described as a mix of racism, white nationalism and populism, ... criticizes "multiculturalism" and more rights for non-whites, women, Jews, Muslims, gays, immigrants and other minorities. Its members reject the American democratic ideal that all should have equality under the law regardless of creed, gender, ethnic origin or race.

[cardboardbox]

I read a study out of Seattle which said, if I remember it correctly, that a $13 minimum wage would raise the cost of a top-of-line fast food hamburger by about 14 cents. I would pay the extra. Anyone balk at a 14 cent premium on your Jumbo Super-Burger if it meant a living wage for a single mother?

I find that hard to believe. The studies I read showed that fast/cheap food as we know it would no longer exist at $15/hr min wage.

[nots]

I find that hard to believe. The studies I read showed that fast/cheap food as we know it would no longer exist at $15/hr min wage.

It's not accurate. I own a small seasonal restaurant. This is my 19th year. If we had to pay cooks, bus boys and others $15/hr plus the additional increase in payroll taxes, it wouldnt be worth the time and energy. I would literally close the next day. We hire only high school and college kids fwiw.

[cardboardbox]

CBB, you are waiting for Godot. I had work for a bit, not trying to keep you and your precious misguided expectations waiting. I clearly repeated, several times, it was a question about do we have a difference in what alt-right means. I also clearly said I had no names in mind, and said it in a way that made it simply not possible to misunderstand. Please feel free to direct further questions of obvious trolling nature to my in box for me to ignore. Or else re-read my follow up posts, until you understand them. Or not. The only name that has self identified as alt-right on board in past 3 months is paleoman, with quotes provided if you read back on my past few posts.

CBB, what does alt-right mean to you. That was the question. I take it to mean the online definition if you pull up wiki, but that would mean those who are self professed supporting of alt-right, are akin to clan, which does not compute, that does not seem right to me, so I repeatedly said maybe we had a difference in definition. The 1st wiki definition pulled up from an online search:

'alt-right' or 'alternative right' is a name currently embraced by some white supremacists and white nationalists to refer to themselves and their ideology, which emphasizes preserving and protecting the white race in the United States in addition to, or over, other traditional conservative positions such as limited government, low taxes and strict law-and-order. The movement has been described as a mix of racism, white nationalism and populism, ... criticizes "multiculturalism" and more rights for non-whites, women, Jews, Muslims, gays, immigrants and other minorities. Its members reject the American democratic ideal that all should have equality under the law regardless of creed, gender, ethnic origin or race.

so when you said:

"Maybe the problem is that alt right is acceptable to some here"

you meant paleoman, who we haven't seen here lately, but no one else that posts regularly? Ok, if thats your story....

Maybe you should direct your questions to paleoman since he's the only person you think is alt-right. I personally know nothing about that group and pay them no attention.

[Redbirds Fan]

If we are going to have immigration laws, we should enforce them. If we aren't going to have them, we should have open borders. But saying because there are 11 million people here illegally it's too big a problem to do anything about, makes no sense to me whatsoever.

I didn't say that at all. I pointed out that there is a developing story about how we are handling the situation right now. I'm sure you have seen it on the news. We deported about 600 people last week as a result of highly publicized raids. I said at that rate it would take a long time to made a dent in the current population. How long? To deport all 11 million, just over 350 years.

Sending in teams to deport a few people at a time is just the Administration playing to the cameras, trying to show that the President is being tough. It doesn't mean anything. BG has thought about the issue a helluva lot more than Trump, and makes more sense.

EDIT: I don't know of anyone, in either party, or as an Independent, who has ever advocated open borders. I may be wrong on that, but unconditional entry into our country by anyone who can manage to fly, swim or stagger up to our border is something I do not remember being proposed.

[gcstomp]

I am pretty far left on social issues in general, to the point I get really pissed if I see people mistreating a gay person, or at the thought of sick people not being able to afford critical medicine. Borders, immigration, I am more centrist. I appreciate what many countries do, such as Canada, and Australia, where you have to score a certain positive value to gain entry, so for instance if you had medical or technical degrees, or have secured employment, or have family already living in country that you clearly can help, then you can gain entry.

Maybe I am not centrist on that issue, is that a rightist pov? But religious bigotry, or pre judging based on having dark skin, that cannot be part of equation, and crimes of racism and bigotry should be enforced. Racists should feel shame to an extent where they are back in hiding with their mouths shut, rather than this overt celebration and white nationalism that is coming out of woodwork with people feeling empowered to open about it. (Mass rally specific, not board specific.)

[cardboardbox]

It's not accurate. I own a small seasonal restaurant. This is my 19th year. If we had to pay cooks, bus boys and others $15/hr plus the additional increase in payroll taxes, it wouldnt be worth the time and energy. I would literally close the next day. We hire only high school and college kids fwiw.

thanks for the first hand info... that falls in line with what I've heard. Good topic for its own thread someday.

[cardboardbox]

I am pretty far left on social issues in general, to the point I get really pissed if I see people mistreating a gay person, or at the thought of sick people not being able to afford critical medicine. Borders, immigration, I am more centrist. I appreciate what many countries do, such as Canada, and Australia, where you have to score a certain positive value to gain entry, so for instance if you had medical or technical degrees, or have secured employment, or have family already living in country that you clearly can help, then you can gain entry.

Maybe I am not centrist on that issue, is that a rightist pov? But religious bigotry, or pre judging based on having dark skin, that cannot be part of equation, and crimes of racism and bigotry should be enforced. Racists should feel shame to an extent where they are back in hiding with their mouths shut, rather than this overt celebration and white nationalism that is coming out of woodwork with people feeling empowered to open about it. (Mass rally specific, not board specific.)

generally speaking I agree with you and I bet the majority of people, left and right, would also agree.

[baldgriff]

I generally tend to agree with Bill Maher and Sam Harris regarding the effect of immigration from predominately Islamic countries.